[Historical] 77th Anniversary of the Siege of Leningrad

I'm reposting from History Channel (when I get more time I'll elaborate on subsequent Historical Facts/Moments):

On this day in History, 1941, German forces begin their siege of Leningrad, a major industrial center and the USSR's second-largest city. The German armies were later joined by Finnish forces that advanced against Leningrad down the Karelian Isthmus.

The siege of Leningrad, also known as the 900-Day Siege though it lasted a grueling 872 days, resulted in the deaths of some one million of the city's civilians and Red and besieged Leningrad from the north. By early November, the city was almost completely encircled.

The daily ration for civilians was reduced to 125 grams of bread, no more than a thick slice. Starvation set in by December, followed by the coldest winter in decades, with temperatures falling to -40 degrees Fahrenheit. People worked through the winter in makeshift armament factories without roofs, building the weapons that kept the Germans just short of victory. Residents burned books and furniture to stay warm and searched for food to supplement their scarce rations. Animals from the city zoo were consumed early in the siege, followed before long by household pets. Wallpaper paste made from potatoes was scraped off the wall, and leather was boiled to produce an edible jelly. Grass and weeds were cooked, and scientists worked to extract vitamins from pine needles and tobacco dust. Hundreds, perhaps thousands, resorted to cannibalizing the dead, and in a few cases people were murdered for their flesh. The Leningrad police struggled to keep order and formed a special division to combat cannibalism.

In January 1943, Red Army soldiers broke through the German line, rupturing the blockade and creating a more efficient supply route along the shores of Lake Ladoga. For the rest of the winter and then during the next, the "road of life" across the frozen Lake Ladoga kept Leningrad alive. Eventually, an oil pipeline and electric cables were laid on the lake bed. In the summer of 1943, vegetables planted on any open ground in the city supplemented rations. In early 1944, Soviet forces approached Leningrad, forcing German forces to retreat southward from the city on January 27. The siege was over.






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The Siege of Leningrad also saw action from Spanish and Portuguese Volunteers who, together, enformed the Blue Division. The Blue Division was comprised of Spanish soldiers who were given leave from the Spanish Army to enroll in the Division and fight the Red threat, Spanish veterans of the Spanish Civil War, who fought for the Nationalists and members of the Falange, Franco's fascist party. The Portuguese volunteers in the Blue Division, called the "Viriatos"* were essentially veterans from the Spanish Civil War, who had fought alongside the Nationalists and their presence was not publically known, and they fought under Spanish Flag.

The Blue Division was Franco's method of paying-back the debt he owed to Nazi Germany for its support in the Civil War with Germany's Condor Legion, notorious for their infamous bombing of Guernica.

The Blue Division only saw action in the Eastern Front as its presence was agreed on the condition that it would only fight the Communists and no Western Allies, essential to keep the integrity of Spain later on as pro-West.




*Viriatos: They were named after our legendary Lusitanian leader, Viriathus, who valiantly fought the Romans and defeated a legion via tactical superiority and ambushes.


I'll be doing a series of "On This Day in" Historical Fact/Moment to keep the Forum entertained and dynamize it a little bit. I'll mostly repost from the History Channel but I'll try adding my own Input. I think it is worth it since there's lots of history-likers around here. You can find the other Historical Facts and Moments by typing in off-topic: [Historical]

Note: I know it was on September 8th but I fell asleep when I was posting it lol

Thank you

They should've simply retreat east and burn the city. It would be already destroyed anyway, atleast people would survive.

Let Germans and their puppets get their victory in ruins, they were already far away from home with supplies running out. City can be easily rebuilt after the war.

I was always amazed by ww2. Not as a war war, but like an historical event. What people did at that time, i cant wrap my head around it.
like here, holding the city with basically no supply of any kind. The pure willpower for survival or just fear of your or nazi army, i dont know how that didnt lose battle versus starvation.

Imagine a choice, surrender and probably die or you're a lucky winner of vacation in one of their concentration camps, which tbh was somewhat similar to their present situation of being under ruthless siege, or hold the line while eating the leg of your best friend from kindergarten. Fucking hell..

Написано Steve Aoki, 09.09.2018 at 13:46

I was always amazed by ww2. Not as a war war, but like an historical event. What people did at that time, i cant wrap my head around it.
like here, holding the city with basically no supply of any kind. The pure willpower for survival or just fear of your or nazi army, i dont know how that didnt lose battle versus starvation.

Imagine a choice, surrender and probably die or you're a lucky winner of vacation in one of their concentration camps, which tbh was somewhat similar to their present situation of being under ruthless siege, or hold the line while eating the leg of your best friend from kindergarten. Fucking hell..

I couldnt agree more, when you read about what the people of leningrad had to go through, its unbelievable the city didnt fall

Написано Steve Aoki, 09.09.2018 at 13:46

I was always amazed by ww2. Not as a war war, but like an historical event. What people did at that time, i cant wrap my head around it.
like here, holding the city with basically no supply of any kind. The pure willpower for survival or just fear of your or nazi army, i dont know how that didnt lose battle versus starvation.

Imagine a choice, surrender and probably die or you're a lucky winner of vacation in one of their concentration camps, which tbh was somewhat similar to their present situation of being under ruthless siege, or hold the line while eating the leg of your best friend from kindergarten. Fucking hell..

And then they took revenge by burning and raping through Prussia and the rest of Germany

Написано Al Fappino, 10.09.2018 at 08:13

And then they took revenge by burning and raping through Prussia and the rest of Germany

Dude if i went thru all this and somehow magically survived, i wouldve moved to Germany and go full Hannibal Lecter on their ass xD

Написано Steve Aoki, 10.09.2018 at 09:43

Написано Al Fappino, 10.09.2018 at 08:13

And then they took revenge by burning and raping through Prussia and the rest of Germany

Dude if i went thru all this and somehow magically survived, i wouldve moved to Germany and go full Hannibal Lecter on their ass xD

Not really since the soviets were going to attack germansky anyway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_offensive_plans_controversy

Написано Al Fappino, 10.09.2018 at 08:13

Написано Steve Aoki, 09.09.2018 at 13:46

I was always amazed by ww2. Not as a war war, but like an historical event. What people did at that time, i cant wrap my head around it.
like here, holding the city with basically no supply of any kind. The pure willpower for survival or just fear of your or nazi army, i dont know how that didnt lose battle versus starvation.

Imagine a choice, surrender and probably die or you're a lucky winner of vacation in one of their concentration camps, which tbh was somewhat similar to their present situation of being under ruthless siege, or hold the line while eating the leg of your best friend from kindergarten. Fucking hell..

And then they took revenge by burning and raping through Prussia and the rest of Germany

Atleast Soviets had an excuse for that, what's Portugal's excuse for enslaving negros and ferrying them to Americas?

Написано smegma lover, 10.09.2018 at 11:26

Not really since the soviets were going to attack germansky anyway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_offensive_plans_controversy

Says 'controversy' for a reason, as its just that, a rumor.

USSR indeed had few million troops on its border, but that is not enough evidence to prove Soviet Union had intention to attack. As mobilizing troops can also mean preparation for defence.

Anyway, Soviet Union was mobilizing forces IN THEIR OWN country, while Germany was positioning their troops in OCCUPIED Poland, very big difference. But even if Soviet Union attacked first, would it matter? It would attack the most evil state on earth, that is hardly to blame.

Написано Skanderbeg, 10.09.2018 at 13:10

Atleast Soviets had an excuse for that, what's Portugal's excuse for enslaving negros and ferrying them to Americas?

Money.
Whats your excuse for looking to start flame wars in the past 3-4 of your posts?

Написано Steve Aoki, 10.09.2018 at 13:28

Написано Skanderbeg, 10.09.2018 at 13:10

Atleast Soviets had an excuse for that, what's Portugal's excuse for enslaving negros and ferrying them to Americas?

Money.
Whats your excuse for looking to start flame wars in the past 3-4 of your posts?

Writing my opinion civilians should escape the battle and siege is flame war for you? Not sure you understand what flame war is then, especially when you missed Fapino's reply to you.

Написано Steve Aoki, 10.09.2018 at 13:28

Написано Skanderbeg, 10.09.2018 at 13:10

Atleast Soviets had an excuse for that, what's Portugal's excuse for enslaving negros and ferrying them to Americas?

Money.
Whats your excuse for looking to start flame wars in the past 3-4 of your posts?

He's from Siberia..

D

Написано Skanderbeg, 10.09.2018 at 13:33

Написано Steve Aoki, 10.09.2018 at 13:28

Написано Skanderbeg, 10.09.2018 at 13:10

Atleast Soviets had an excuse for that, what's Portugal's excuse for enslaving negros and ferrying them to Americas?

Money.
Whats your excuse for looking to start flame wars in the past 3-4 of your posts?

Writing my opinion civilians should escape the battle and siege is flame war for you? Not sure you understand what flame war is then, especially when you missed Fapino's reply to you.

Didnt really miss it, i responded actually to the post thats somewhat related to the thread. You missed the thread by a couple of hundred years. Make a new one where you blame conquistadors and waffels homeland for slavery and have a peaceful night.

Написано Steve Aoki, 10.09.2018 at 14:04

Didnt really miss it, i responded actually to the post thats somewhat related to the thread. You missed the thread by a couple of hundred years. Make a new one where you blame conquistadors and waffels homeland for slavery and have a peaceful night.

Again you dont understand... Soviet rape in 1945 is recently exaggerated topic in the Western World and many young leadless people fall for it, like he did in this topic, just waiting opportunity to post it somewhere. So instead replying to me, you better ask him did he started the topic just for that.

Написано Steve Aoki, 10.09.2018 at 09:43

Написано Al Fappino, 10.09.2018 at 08:13

And then they took revenge by burning and raping through Prussia and the rest of Germany

Dude if i went thru all this and somehow magically survived, i wouldve moved to Germany and go full Hannibal Lecter on their ass xD

I understand the Red Army's posture against the German Population when they counter-attacked and marched towards Berlin, it's all down to the animalistic emotions of the human being to protect and avenge their fellow companions and countrymen and most of the time, families, but still, portrays them as "savages", and that level of animalistic emotion should, at start, not be present or tolerated in an Army.

Написано Skanderbeg, 10.09.2018 at 13:10

Написано Al Fappino, 10.09.2018 at 08:13

And then they took revenge by burning and raping through Prussia and the rest of Germany

Atleast Soviets had an excuse for that, what's Portugal's excuse for enslaving negros and ferrying them to Americas?

This is precisely why you have the reputation of an edgy, biased individual. What does the Siege of Leningrad have to do with the Portuguese Empire Atlantic Trade, that wasn't only focused on Slave Trade but on Tobacco, Sugar Cane, Exotic Wood, Spices and much more?

I won't further up and accept and embroil in your invitation for a cheap, unkind flame-war, but you shouldn't condemn with Modern Era/2018 eyes what was done in previous Historical Eras. Mindsets have evolved, cultures have evolved and so did countries and civilizations. Judging such a different past with your today's eyes is not only extremely ignorant and biased, but also dangerous, as it allows Historical Revisionism and threatens our collective history as mankind and National History of lots of nations, that should be untouchable. In conclusion, if you think for a second that the fact Portugal was the prime dealer in the Atlantic Slave Trade and the biggest to "blame" for the centenary-old black ancestry in the Americas, you're very much wrong, I'm proud of my country's History, from its start, up until today, and that's how it goes.

I could further up on this and further argue about this rather interesting subject, but I'll leave it to another [Historical] thread and to a better arguing-individual, who isn't as biased and edgy

1 million vs 1 million clash in the same spot, scary thought. thats literally an entire nation of soldiers

Написано Skanderbeg, 10.09.2018 at 13:10

Anyway, Soviet Union was mobilizing forces IN THEIR OWN country, while Germany was positioning their troops in OCCUPIED Poland, very big difference.

Actually, no, both of them were mobilising forces in occupied Poland.

Написано Al Fappino, 10.09.2018 at 17:11

I understand the Red Army's posture against the German Population when they counter-attacked and marched towards Berlin, it's all down to the animalistic emotions of the human being to protect and avenge their fellow companions and countrymen and most of the time, families, but still, portrays them as "savages", and that level of animalistic emotion should, at start, not be present or tolerated in an Army.

I'm not trying to justify what they did. I'm saying i can understand why they did it.
Seem like you're trying to find an honest man in a war. I'll give you a counteroffer, make wars illegal.

Написано Steve Aoki, 10.09.2018 at 17:52

Написано Al Fappino, 10.09.2018 at 17:11

I understand the Red Army's posture against the German Population when they counter-attacked and marched towards Berlin, it's all down to the animalistic emotions of the human being to protect and avenge their fellow companions and countrymen and most of the time, families, but still, portrays them as "savages", and that level of animalistic emotion should, at start, not be present or tolerated in an Army.

I'm not trying to justify what they did. I'm saying i can understand why they did it.
Seem like you're trying to find an honest man in a war. I'll give you a counteroffer, make wars illegal.

I got you, I'm not justifiying them either, I understand why they did it, as I've stated. And yes, it's an illusion to rationalize what's irrational and it's an illusion to nitpick honest men in a war, especially one for survival. But then again, Man has always pursued Discipline and Authority to prevent animals in conflicts.

Leningrad was i believe the longest single siege of WWII.
fortitude & determination of the military & civilian men/women & children unquestionable (even allowing for nkvd overseeing).
armies always require trained/focused/controlled "savages" to do the really dirty acts that conflict always cause.
disipline/authority = how to get the job done/ensuring the job gets done.
all wars are about survival (especially if you're sabre/bayonet/close/neccessary enough to be a target).

strictly speaking any member of the un that engages in war without going through due proccesses will be entering into an "illegal war".

throughout history once one man wants what another has,without willing exchange = conflict.
many (great & lesser) civilations/tribes have conquered/hunted/enslaved/sold (exchanged) the defeated on all continents.

beware relying too much on history channel (not always accurate in order to max' televisual impact),
remember history's written by the victor for the victorious not always for the truth.
if investigating an historical event try reading victor/vanquished/neutral all will be true from the varing perspectives.
why else have time limits before "sensitve" info's released

Написано Ruseuser, 10.09.2018 at 20:46

Leningrad was i believe the longest single siege of WWII.
fortitude & determination of the military & civilian men/women & children unquestionable (even allowing for nkvd overseeing).
armies always require trained/focused/controlled "savages" to do the really dirty acts that conflict always cause.
disipline/authority = how to get the job done/ensuring the job gets done.
all wars are about survival (especially if you're sabre/bayonet/close/neccessary enough to be a target).

strictly speaking any member of the un that engages in war without going through due proccesses will be entering into an "illegal war".

throughout history once one man wants what another has,without willing exchange = conflict.
many (great & lesser) civilations/tribes have conquered/hunted/enslaved/sold (exchanged) the defeated on all continents.

beware relying too much on history channel (not always accurate in order to max' televisual impact),
remember history's written by the victor for the victorious not always for the truth.
if investigating an historical event try reading victor/vanquished/neutral all will be true from the varing perspectives.
why else have time limits before "sensitve" info's released

~

Already got other sources for information, History Channel was the temporary go-to source lolz

Ok

Gay Fappino has bias towards his own people and talks about Portuguese people in a Spanish division in Russia when the post is supposed to be about the siege of Leningrad, when I make a post about Normandy I'll dedicate half the page on the three Greek destroyers hanging off the coast at the time

No one mentions the poor poles... their uprising in Warsaw was remarkable but what did the soviets do? Stop advancing and let the germans regroup to murder them all.

Написано Zephyrusu, 11.09.2018 at 03:39

Gay Fappino has bias towards his own people and talks about Portuguese people in a Spanish division in Russia when the post is supposed to be about the siege of Leningrad, when I make a post about Normandy I'll dedicate half the page on the three Greek destroyers hanging off the coast at the time

The post is about the Siege of Leningrad, but why not add-up a different flavour to it and mention a special division made up of Spanish and Portuguese veterans from the Spanish Civil War, who got awarded a Medal for Anti-Bolshevism fight and were actually the only division in the German Army to have received such collective honour.

Написано Al Fappino, 10.09.2018 at 17:18

This is precisely why you have the reputation of an edgy, biased individual. What does the Siege of Leningrad have to do with the Portuguese Empire Atlantic Trade, that wasn't only focused on Slave Trade but on Tobacco, Sugar Cane, Exotic Wood, Spices and much more?

I won't further up and accept and embroil in your invitation for a cheap, unkind flame-war, but you shouldn't condemn with Modern Era/2018 eyes what was done in previous Historical Eras. Mindsets have evolved, cultures have evolved and so did countries and civilizations. Judging such a different past with your today's eyes is not only extremely ignorant and biased, but also dangerous, as it allows Historical Revisionism and threatens our collective history as mankind and National History of lots of nations, that should be untouchable. In conclusion, if you think for a second that the fact Portugal was the prime dealer in the Atlantic Slave Trade and the biggest to "blame" for the centenary-old black ancestry in the Americas, you're very much wrong, I'm proud of my country's History, from its start, up until today, and that's how it goes.

I could further up on this and further argue about this rather interesting subject, but I'll leave it to another [Historical] thread and to a better arguing-individual, who isn't as biased and edgy

Hard to decide to label you stupid or troll, because if i label you stupid, that would be an insult, and if i label you troll, then it means you are not stupid but baiting.

What does Soviet incidental rapes in Germany have to do with Siege of Leningrad? Where is the connection between 2 subjects? You are jumping from one topic to another and therefore i mentioned Portuguese enslavement of Africa.

When you stop connecting unrelating things, i will stop replying to you. In the meantime, stop playing double-standards 'you can't look in the past with modern view because that's not right' while that's exactly what you're doing, then call people around you edgy or biased because they crushed your narrative.

Please do go find better-arguing individual, but when you defeat me in a debate (which i still wait), and i'm just mentioning parts of your history haha

77th Anniversary of the Siege of Leningrad.
-------------------------------------------------------
andartes where you originate?banging on about enslavement of africa,
how about africans enslaving africans?
arabs enslaving africans?
greeks enslaving greeks?
celts enslaving celts?
chinese enslaving political dissidents?
current sex slave trafficking?
this list could be enormous.
Perspective is required & maybe you start new post to vent your spleen .

77th Anniversary of the siege of Leningrad.
------------------------------------------------------
better-argueing = not correct,better debator.

Написано Skanderbeg, 11.09.2018 at 12:52

Написано Al Fappino, 10.09.2018 at 17:18

This is precisely why you have the reputation of an edgy, biased individual. What does the Siege of Leningrad have to do with the Portuguese Empire Atlantic Trade, that wasn't only focused on Slave Trade but on Tobacco, Sugar Cane, Exotic Wood, Spices and much more?

I won't further up and accept and embroil in your invitation for a cheap, unkind flame-war, but you shouldn't condemn with Modern Era/2018 eyes what was done in previous Historical Eras. Mindsets have evolved, cultures have evolved and so did countries and civilizations. Judging such a different past with your today's eyes is not only extremely ignorant and biased, but also dangerous, as it allows Historical Revisionism and threatens our collective history as mankind and National History of lots of nations, that should be untouchable. In conclusion, if you think for a second that the fact Portugal was the prime dealer in the Atlantic Slave Trade and the biggest to "blame" for the centenary-old black ancestry in the Americas, you're very much wrong, I'm proud of my country's History, from its start, up until today, and that's how it goes.

I could further up on this and further argue about this rather interesting subject, but I'll leave it to another [Historical] thread and to a better arguing-individual, who isn't as biased and edgy

Hard to decide to label you stupid or troll, because if i label you stupid, that would be an insult, and if i label you troll, then it means you are not stupid but baiting.

What does Soviet incidental rapes in Germany have to do with Siege of Leningrad? Where is the connection between 2 subjects? You are jumping from one topic to another and therefore i mentioned Portuguese enslavement of Africa.

When you stop connecting unrelating things, i will stop replying to you. In the meantime, stop playing double-standards 'you can't look in the past with modern view because that's not right' while that's exactly what you're doing, then call people around you edgy or biased because they crushed your narrative.

Please do go find better-arguing individual, but when you defeat me in a debate (which i still wait), and i'm just mentioning parts of your history haha

You can go around and mention any part of my country's History anytime you'd like, and I'd be happy to lecture you when required, on it. I'm proud of my country's history and there's no greater pleasure than educating the uneducated about it

You could actually draw a connection between the brutality of the Siege of Leningrad (and other battles during Eastern Front) to the subsequent rapes by Soviet soldiers upon the German and Baltic populations that sided with the Germans. To call it incidental is to be tendenciously biased, and thus, unreliable. Why wouldn't those rapes be in connection to the German war machine brutality that strolled through the Russian territory? The Soviets felt the need to avenge the loss of their fellow countrymen, their cities, villages and properties, so it's not fully edgy to draw a potential connection between German war machine brutality/battles and subsequent Soviet revenge-rape.

If the Wilhelm Gustloff was torpedoed by a Soviet Submarine (The Gustloff was a modified civilian cruise ship that was tasked with transporting refugees, who fled Russian Army and the terror it brought to population), killing 900 and the torpedoes had inscriptions saying: "For Leningrad", "For the Motherland", "For the Soviet People", I don't see your fuss, but I understand it, as it appeals to your emotions.

Also, careful with your bright-attention. I mentioned different, distant pasts. You had to use the 16th century mindset to defend what I wrote, and what I wrote, in 2018, isn't something too different than what happens today with army atrocities of today and of then being the same. It was a war crime then, it's a war crime now..

"Let Germans and their puppets get their victory in ruins, they were already far away from home with supplies running out. City can be easily rebuilt after the war." [Rank 11 Premium] Andartes
The_Empire

Posts: 4691

are you aware the destruction of "the Whitehouse" by the British Navy during 1812 Anglo-American War caused the american government to sue for peace?
pride/self belief/determination/strategic location/military dogma/leadership,right or wrong/no options + many many reasons dictate actions/decisions during war.
cities cannot easily be rebuilt after war(especially modern war = explosive devices of all kinds)watch any post warzone news report & you'll understand.