Is the UN worth keeping?
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Сообщения: 39
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Опрос
Is the UN worth funding and keeping around?
Yes
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No
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Всего голосов: 39
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Yes if countries would have the balls to actually want to create a better world.
---- Everyone is living a myth and it's important to know what yours is. It could be a tragedy- and maybe you don't want it to be.
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In its current form - no. But Russia, China and Germany are planning to change that. There is one country called America which bypasses all International Laws and act as Planetary Police and because of them UN looks like inefficient chit-chat club. But if we put America where it belong, UN can work quite fine considering countries dont have imperialist and power pretensions. Give it another 100 years, if it still doesnt work - disband it and stick to countrys alliances.
---- If a game is around long enough, people will find the most efficient way to play it and start playing it like robots
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yea,russia and china obey international laws.................
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a sovereign nation is not required to appease the opinion of foreigners, based putin doesn't care about silly rules established by a puppet organization.
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you mean rules he has agreed to follow?
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Could it do more? Of course. Is it perfect? Of course not. But does it do good things? Yes. It does do a variety of different things to help people around the world. To disband it because it isn't perfect is just silly.
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I dont see Russia and China breaking International Laws. I would like to see argument backed by evidence.
---- If a game is around long enough, people will find the most efficient way to play it and start playing it like robots
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is russian anexation of crimea not agaisnt international laws?cuz if its not lets all go start taking chunks of of each others land. same thing applies for china in south china sea
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There was no annexation, but merging of Republic of Crimea and Russian Federation. Independent Crimea voted 96% on referendum to join Russia and Russia accepted them as 85th federal subject. Youtube is full of celebration videos in Crimea and Russia. Crimea was given to Ukraine by Ukrainian Communist in 1954 without approve of the parliament and the people. Crimea seceded from Ukraine in 2014 when Nazis took power. Crimean referendum was observed by foreigners who reported it was legal and there was no violations. According to international law people have right to self-determination and opposition to totalitarian systems, people have right on freedom and independence. Liberty, democracy, freedom, law and civilization won.
UN and International Community recognize South China Sea as Chinese territory and thus People's Republic of China have right.
---- If a game is around long enough, people will find the most efficient way to play it and start playing it like robots
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What about taking away Gush Katif, Judea and Samaria from Israel, and giving it to terrorist organization that represents fake people? "isn't agaisnt international laws? cuz if its not lets all go start taking chunks of of each others land.".
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who took kosovo away from you, they wanted to be an independent state, specifics being put aside.
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Kosovars had to deal with an over repressive government in Serbia that repeatedly sent in the army to quell student protest and refused to accommodate the vastly Moslem population into a multi-ethnic state. If Crimea wanted to be an independent state, then a referendum should have been held (like they did in Scotland) before a foreign army invaded the peninsula and then set up polls. You seem to forget that the native population (Tatars) were completely evicted from the peninsula by yours truly Stalin. I would have supported Crimean succession had it been there before the Russians invaded. The Russian-speaking population did not have to deal with a Ukrainian government that sent in the military to quell any form of disobedience before the Russians invaded the area.
---- Everyone is living a myth and it's important to know what yours is. It could be a tragedy- and maybe you don't want it to be.
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It is great difference between wishes and reality. They wanted, but they did a crime. Serbian south territories called 'Kosovo and Metokhiya' were taken by Albania in WWII and with the help of Germans and Italians they genocided half of Serbian population while other half left in fear - ethnic cleansing. Then Albanians broughts their families and settled in homes which Serbs left. Then during Yugoslav Communism they opened borders and continue to colonize Kosovo and Metokhiya with communist support. Finally they changed the name of the region to simple 'Kosovo' which doesnt mean anything on Albanian but it means 'blackbird' on Serbian (metokhiya is greek word of land belong to monastery). 50 years later they claim independence without parliament approvel, without referendum and with violence and war supported by America. In the other hand, you have Crimea which is populated with Russians, Ukrainians and Tatars for 1000 years and they break away from Ukraine when Nazis took power violently and because Crimea was forced in Ukraine by Communist Khruschev illegaly. Then as independent country they held referendum and 96% of them voted to join Russia and Russian parliament elected by People of Russia accepted request. Everything according to International Law, United Nations charter and United States Law about national self-determination. Thats how civilization is working. But if you like, we can do it barbaric way, take what we want with war and violence. We will win anyway. Because we have more people. Russia is stronger than Europe, while Germany is closer to Russia than NATO, Italy was always pro-Russian, Spain have Catalonian problem, Scotland wont support England against Russia, France was Russian ally and French nationalists are pro-Russian, small European states like Belgium, Netherland and Denmark wont dare to fight Russia without others, they will stay neutral. So America will only have Poland, Sweden and Baltic on their side against Russia. China is weaker than America, but China + India is enough to counter USA, more soldiers plus aircraft carriers and more submarines. On smaller scale concerning Kosovo, Serbia is way larger and stronger than Albania, they can easily liberate kosovo when America pull troops from to send them against Russia and China. Dont you realize that laws are the only thing left protecting Western World? Why you reject something that keeps you alive? Are you suicidal?
---- If a game is around long enough, people will find the most efficient way to play it and start playing it like robots
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Albanians moved to Kosovo in WWII in masses, they tried to colonize Kosovo and create Great Albania. Then Communists encouraged them to settle more Kosovo during Yugoslavia while banning Serbs to return. And after 40 years you have 2 million Albanians and 200,000 Serbs. Then they started war, cleansing 200,000 Serbs and got independence, soon they will merge with Albania but for now they deny because it would be too obvious, they can wait 50 more years. Albanians on Kosovo had albanian schools, albanian colleges, albanian newspapers, albanian factories, albanian street names, albanian restaurants, albanian language. So they were repressive toward Serbs, not vice-versa, Yugoslavia granted them very nice life compared to Serbs and other communist countries. Now when they are independent, they dont have electricity, no clean water, no job, no healthcare. 
Russian Army was already there on peninsula before Crimean breakaway because Russia inherited Soviet bases on Crimea, which Soviets inherited from Imperial Russian Army. Ukraine leased Crimean bases to Russia until 2050, so Russian Army numbered 20,000 there. When Crimea broke away, Russian Army just left barracks and positioned on Crimea-Ukraine border so Ukrainian Nazis dont come and slaughter civilians, like they would as they said in their anti-Russian rethorics in Kiev. You have to understand that Russian can never be foreigner to Russian, no matter where they live especially not in Russian birthplace like Crimea/Ukraine/Russia. You have to understand that USSR created many problems for Russians which cannot be solved easy and fast. Communism took one nation and created 3 new (Russia & Ukraine & Belorussia/Belarus). USSR created artificial borders without meaning which never existed in history, it divided same people. Now those republics are independent while Russians found themselves living outside Russian state. Dont believe 'Russians are oppressive and poor minorities want freedom', Kazakhstan, Belarus, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan are still good friends and allies of Russia, while Georgia and Baltics are hostile. Dont believe they all hate Russia, they just have local warlords who want power so they sold their allegiance to others. It can happen in the future that Russia buy their loyalty and you will see how 'whole country is officialy true and natural ally of Russia'. Sakhashvili started war with Russia and then fled to Ukraine leaving his country bankrupted, now Georgia wants to trial him for corruption but Poroshenko gave him Ukrainian citizenship and he is mayor of Odessa now, can you believe that? he is the icon of a modern warlord.
---- If a game is around long enough, people will find the most efficient way to play it and start playing it like robots
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Ummm, not really. Maybe if the world suddenly decides to go full retard (this means, using EVERYTHING they have, nukes includes). Then yeah I'd say Russia have a chance.
It is? I've saw merkel distancing from Putin in many times...
.... no words. (proof would'be welcomed so I can say something lol).
How does this affects the war? Catalonia won't take the war as a chance to secede from Spain. And even if they do, then Spanish army would oppress them (assuming we're in war times, there's no room for democracy). This won't expend as much troops as you think....
Why?
lol, but I've just hear that France recently cancelled the sell of some strong weapons to Russia.
Their army is irrelevant, anyway....
Well I clearly can't see countries like Greece, Turkey, Balkans (Romania, for example). Their army isn't as irrelevant as Benelux or Denmark's.
With so many people in their army, stronger economy, U.S dependence on China and a fight in their own homeland (this if U.S want to prevent losing japan, South Korea), I highly doubt this. Fighting outside of their homeland though.... Then maybe.
Agree.
Finland vs Russia. Really though, unexpected results does happens.
NATO countries are forced to declare the war if any of their members is being attacked [Correct me if I'm wrong]. So is European union [correct me if I'm wrong]. It would'be quite interesting to imagine how the world war 3 would'be between Russia and USA, but at the end it will probably end with Russia and the rest with their economy destroyed and not enough mechanics for ensure the goods, while U.S would have their factories intact (Just like in WW1, WW2..). This is because U.S is so damm far !
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lad i really did just ask "who wants kosovo" more so out of confusion to what was said to me, the question i was aiming it at made out like the crimeans were trying to take Kosovo. i am aware of the Crimean thing but i just started read up on the kosovo thing about 3 hours ago so i'm not really ready to comment on it in public. few things i feel like should point out. Sweden wouldn't join a war with America willingly or easily as per other military alliances that they are involved in which would make it incredibly difficult to be forced to or willingly go to war no matter who got involved. They're long standing neutrality and they're generally very good global politics in recent years. Scotland just voted to remain a part of england + wales "fuck-buddies forever group" and so they are apart of GB and will do whatever the English and welsh are doing. and england have the most imperialistically mindset leaders add that to the idea that they are america's partners in crime they will defo go at russia if given the chance meaning all the other little states will join in, but again they are being held back by treaties and shit like that they are also of no consequence when shit starts to fly. India and china don't work together at all in fact they are having border disputes regularly around the Pakistan border, though i here tensions are relieved around that are due to concessions being made by china, they both however go to russia as a stronger economic partner. but they still have incredibly different cultures and leadership styles so them teaming up isn't to be taken for granted. so though they both might help Russia, they probably wouldn't help each other.
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"there is so much wrong with this one line it actually pisses me off slightly so i felt it deserved its own commment" what laws protect the "western world" as you put it? and what is it that defines this "western world". and what or who is this "western world" being protected from. Laws arent there to protect you, you fool. they are implemented so that you can't get ahead of yourself,above your station. laws protect the powerful and the advanced not the worker in the office cubicle or on the construction site. laws protect 1% of the population of this planet who own 49 % of the wealth and whatever sycophantic leader was bought into power by that wealth. laws are implemented to make you feel safe while you sleep at night while the rest of the world burns and somehow that doesn't disturb you because those laws have convinced you that your safe nobody will come for you, well that is a level of naivety that just sickens me. people will still rob you while your sleeping and there is no law that allows you to take back what you lost and for the most part you cant even defend yourself or your own home from an intruder by those very laws. Banks and corporations sure as hell never adhered to any laws, we are hearing again and again over and over how inquiry's are digging up more dirt on almost every institution that there is in operation and what can be done about it practically nothing. so these people robbed a couple million people and then went to another country so they cant be tried for any wrongdoing. nice laws "Why you reject something that keeps you alive?" If you are so willing to throw your freedom away to be locked behind laws for protection then you are the ever mounting problem. and i advise you to grow a pair and stand up for yourself and learn to keep yourself alive instead of relying on these silly laws of yours. then take a look around at whats really happening beside you instead of imagining the stupidest situation possible where russia wins a war cause its russia. or russia even gong to war with the US is pretty ridiculas. "am i suicidal?" are you for real how the hell can it be construed as suicidal to not trust another person to keep me safe. either you are incredibly stupid or incredibly naive these laws dont give me any protection if anything it reduces my ability to protect myself if someone wants to harm me then i will try to harm them more till they go away as simple as that, however those laws we just spoke of prevent me from defending myself for fear that i will then be tagged by a state as someone who needs to be jailed. and by that western world i am then impeded if i then one day wanted to travel or work somewhere that isnt my own country i am restricted from moving between imaginary lines that somehow dictate where cultures begin and end and where different laws exist and disappear. but hey if you want to feel protected by these laws thats your own intuition but its a bad idea. i'd rather feel safe by my own doing.
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As I take a quick break I see this has once again disintegrated from regarding should the UN be kept (and more importantly, in what ways can we make it better) into another argument regarding East vs. West, capitalist vs. commies vs. anarcho PS. I will say though some of the commenters (even those I disagree with) make compelling points and nu, so long as you don't advocate forcing your beliefs and/or saying other demographic groups should be excluded/killed then you have my respect even if I don't always show it in a compassionate way. Now I must return to RL, wish me luck
---- Everyone is living a myth and it's important to know what yours is. It could be a tragedy- and maybe you don't want it to be.
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They do have border dispute and even had a war, but USSR and China had border disputes and border war which Russia solved with China today. Now India and China are using Russia-China example to solve India-China problem, they create committees to gather and talk about the problem, problem is territory, so solution is to give it away, or share it. Russia gave to China everything China asked, and thats one small island, half of one small lake and border moved few kilometers further. So we expect China (as larger than India) to give territory to India as it is small piece of land, non-strategic and insignificant. Bigger problem is Kashmir region, because Pakistan want it and China is their ally long before BRIC was created, so they cant openly support India in that matter.
---- If a game is around long enough, people will find the most efficient way to play it and start playing it like robots
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Since WWII there is a race. In Cold War it was about weapons, tanks, missiles, planes, ships. Today it branched out to politics, military and economy. That mean West and East today dont compete only who have stronger armies, but economies and politics. Lets take example: America have 1,3 million troops, but India have 1,3 million as well, China have 2,3 million while Russia have 700,000. Europe have around 1 million combined. China, India and Russia have more reserve than America & Europe, plus more population 2.6 billion to 800 million on the West. Economically, America and Europe have larger economies, but they are in recession while India and China economies grow 10% and 7% respectivelly. Russian economy grew 5% before European sanctions, now it fell to 1% because Europe was major market for Russia, when Russia turn to China and India for markets, economic growth will rise again to 5% and maybe even to 10% as there is no risk of sanctions while there is abundance of resources and consumers. That mean West lost advantage, it doesnt have superior military anymore, it doesnt have superior economy, and it started losing allies (most of European states joined Chinese-led Asian Bank, they chip in $billions and China is the boss). The only thing that is left to protect the West are laws, and West is abusing them so they can deepen the confrontation with the East. Examples are invasion of Iraq without United Nations approval, without reason to attack, invasion of Lybia, invasion of Serbia and bombing of Syria. If Law barrier fall, West cannot confront East as it doesnt have advantage anymore.
---- If a game is around long enough, people will find the most efficient way to play it and start playing it like robots
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Au contrair, with nukes, everyone lose: because if only one nuke hit its target, it is over. That mean if America fire nuke at Russia and Russian anti-nuke system destroy it, Russia retaliate by firing nuke back to America, nuke hit New York - Russia lose as well. Today sides are pretty much balanced in terms of economies and militaries. Both West and East have equal chance to win if war start tomorrow. But East grow faster so they will have advantage in the near future. Thats why America started Ukrainian Civil War, Syrian War and sanctioned Iran, they were all Russian allies.
Merkel is one women, Germany have 80 million people who have 30,000 companies working in Russia and make profit from Russian cheap labor while they sell German quality products to Russia while Russia in return sell cheap oil and gas to Germany. German-Russian trade worth more than American-Russian. Germany invested $billions in Russia and Russia started to invest recently in Germany (it couldnt before because poverty). Germany was forced by America to sanction Russia, they protested but they cant do anything because they are just vassals of America. Their former finance minister said 'f*ck american imperialism, aggression comes from them, not from Russians'. Because German family businesses are collapsing in sanctions, and German 2.5 million jobs are at stake. 
No time to google now, but you can check Wikipedia for Italian Communist Party, Russian city Tolyatti, Italian investment in Russia, Russian deal to buy every food from Italy (guaranteed export for Italians), cheap oil and gas for Italy. Italian Left support Russia, and i even think Italian Right support Russia but i have to research to be 100%. Italy lost $billions because they were forced to sanction Russia. Whole Europe lost about $80 billion dollars for 1 year because 10,000km far away country (america) forced them to sanction one of the largest market on the planet.
True, but problems piled up for Spain, Catalonia wants to break, and they can have excuse if Spain declare war on Russia. Catalonia will just say they are pacifist and they want to remain neutral while Spain wants to fight. That way Spain lose around 1/3 of population, 1/3 of economy and 1/3 of territory. They lose all that by just declared war, they still were not invaded or anything, so before you say cheesecase, Spain will declare war on Russia and fight civil war with Catalonia. Autodestruction. Plus weak economy since 2008 created unemployment, i think Spain suffered the most after Greece in Europe.
Same reason as for Spain, they will break away which will make England angry and they will send troops to Scotland so they can preserve British Union.
Yes, but company which built them complained and said it want to do business. Deal was politicized because America forced France to cancel it. 1500 French workers in that shipyard protested because Russia gave them jobs, they need jobs so they can feed their families. I dont have time to give you link, please google it.
Thats the point, every European army is irrelevant compared to American, Russian or Chinese. But together Europe form formidable force, which is on paper. Because Europe is composed of many ethnic groups who have their own countries (nation states) and half of them dont have interest to fight Russia. They are not united 100%, there cannot be communication between Bulgarian NATO military and French military, or Italian and Danish, English and Romanian, they are different, plus not to mention different weapons they use since collapse of communism. No time to reply more, will do it later. Cheers
---- If a game is around long enough, people will find the most efficient way to play it and start playing it like robots
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china and india made there first agreement in the 70's, i think, to cede territory with majority chinese culture to china from India and vise verca, recently china ceded some territory to india because it was of no use whatsoever to the chinese, but they are notoriously slow at solving these border disputes and i think the differences that this agreement is having is irrelevant on a globally scale. (not really having the same effect as the changes with russia and china)
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since world war 2 there has been an ever growing banking power in our world because of how much money the main conspirators of the war have to pay back to the banks for the funding they were given. this pretty much means that with the banks being at the centre of the recession in every way it doesn't actually matter if any foreign bank decides to try a draw countries away from america or as it would be made out to look like because all that money is going to be paid back to a bank in some way and that money is owned by that 1% and they don't care if a nation goes to war or not so long as they get there money. so to bring back on topic ,no, a united nations inst needed anymore. Its relevancy is not powerful enough to prevent any major conflict. these laws that the UN have imposed are worthless, nothing more than a facade to portray an image of confidence and direction. i think even teh world leaders know that its a waste of time or maybe its something to keep them busy while they pretend to lead stuff.
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Half a dozen countries across the East/Southeast Asian coast disagrees with you.
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Closest poll I've ever seen....
---- Everyone is living a myth and it's important to know what yours is. It could be a tragedy- and maybe you don't want it to be.
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