When is new banlist feature coming out?

Написано Professor Adog, 21.06.2014 at 09:15

Написано Tundy, 21.06.2014 at 09:10

My ban list it's 500 names strong.
Good luck trying to regulate it.

Really? ONLY 500? hue hue. I expected more.

I clean my ignored list once in a while.

Ah ok

Написано Professor Adog, 21.06.2014 at 08:51

Написано Columna Durruti, 21.06.2014 at 08:50

So actually you recognize that there might be a set of maps that only "friend-listed" players will be able to play. That's all I wanted to point out: it is not a "simple" issue and has to be well thought-through to avoid a further fragmentation of the community.

I didn't say it couldn't be abused. Just that only the "bad" map makers would abuse it, and since their maps are bad,... who cares? :0

And who defines that???

Написано Columna Durruti, 21.06.2014 at 09:56

Написано Professor Adog, 21.06.2014 at 08:51

Написано Columna Durruti, 21.06.2014 at 08:50

So actually you recognize that there might be a set of maps that only "friend-listed" players will be able to play. That's all I wanted to point out: it is not a "simple" issue and has to be well thought-through to avoid a further fragmentation of the community.

I didn't say it couldn't be abused. Just that only the "bad" map makers would abuse it, and since their maps are bad,... who cares? :0

And who defines that???

Me

The relevant part from Ivan.

Написано Ivan, 21.06.2014 at 06:10

..whereas the banlist is already 100% done (just waiting for Amok to update the service).

I can however add a user permission that will block map-makers from using banlists - that would be pretty simple to arrange.

I spent years overthrowing this country. I deserve the right to do anything I want

Написано Tundy, 20.06.2014 at 10:01

Написано notserral, 20.06.2014 at 09:57

We're working hard on a solution that prevents griefing and direct banning (as in, I don't like that guy, I'm going to ban him from my games).

You can't prevent that, it's a necessary evil that comes with the ban list.

First Its not up you.
Second Banning people are just the things the mods are for. The power I think won't be given directly to the map creators.

Написано minusSeven, 22.06.2014 at 12:24

Написано Tundy, 20.06.2014 at 10:01

Написано notserral, 20.06.2014 at 09:57

We're working hard on a solution that prevents griefing and direct banning (as in, I don't like that guy, I'm going to ban him from my games).

You can't prevent that, it's a necessary evil that comes with the ban list.

First Its not up you.
Second Banning people are just the things the mods are for. The power I think won't be given directly to the map creators.

You know how hard for mods this will be? lol
me, having to submit a 500 name list, with a reason for each.

LEL just imagine, mods having to read them all, and then adding them to all my maps and scenarios.

Написано notserral, 20.06.2014 at 15:55

That's not a very good argument.

It is because every mapmaker has the power to simply unpublish and only play their maps by giving select players the password. So all mapmakers have this power but they share their content. Depriving content from griefers who ruin that content is something almost every custom PC game does.

Banlists just make this process easier.

I have zero incentive to play or create more content until we have ban lists up and running so that the community can start playing these maps without having to worry about griefers.

Написано Tundy, 22.06.2014 at 13:07

Написано minusSeven, 22.06.2014 at 12:24

Написано Tundy, 20.06.2014 at 10:01

Написано notserral, 20.06.2014 at 09:57

We're working hard on a solution that prevents griefing and direct banning (as in, I don't like that guy, I'm going to ban him from my games).

You can't prevent that, it's a necessary evil that comes with the ban list.

First Its not up you.
Second Banning people are just the things the mods are for. The power I think won't be given directly to the map creators.

You know how hard for mods this will be? lol
me, having to submit a 500 name list, with a reason for each.

LEL just imagine, mods having to read them all, and then adding them to all my maps and scenarios.

500 people for a game that barely has 1000 active players
This more than ever reinforces my belief not to give the power to map creators for the greater good of the community. The host anyway has the right to kick any player he wants.

Написано Columna Durruti, 21.06.2014 at 07:34

A map or scenario is like a private property of public interest, which means that there is a higher responsibility of managing them well (SP farming maps, ban list, etc.).

I understand what you are saying but I dont like that language usage. Its used many times to justify terrible policy. I prefer freedom of association but this isnt a homegrown territorial garden community. Its a game site. Ive said many times before that I have no intention to ban people unless they grief.

If some people want to act childish, let them. But I seriously doubt you are going to see anyone banning others for simply having different political, racial or sexual differences. I never did and dont intend to in the future. Its a game where most of us voluntarily communicate and play with one another. That is very different from the real world.

Besides, some people might want to collectivise ban lists which Im happy to do if evidence is provided but Im not going to do so if they ban people for mundane and personal issues.

But to be perfectly honest, if you insult and swear and bitch at an admin, you deserve what you get. I dont care most of the time but some admins will and they have every right not to share content with people hostile to them. Mods here certanly dont.

Написано minusSeven, 22.06.2014 at 12:24

First Its not up you. Second Banning people are just the things the mods are for. The power I think won't be given directly to the map creators.

It is. Almost all custom games in other games ban griefers. Tunder and Adog are just trolling. If they do stupid shit, I wont collectivise with them. I dont get why they are posting these ridiculous claims of what they will do becuase they arent helping their cause but the fundamental point is this. THEY BUILT THEIR content. They can shit it off at anytime, they share that content to play with others.

Ownership of that content and labor is fine by me. Preventing trolls for hurting other games is fine by me.

Listen here, the whole community backed us on this. We shut down maps and scenarios with community backing because your petty idea that admins can kick is not enough.
Admins shouldnt have to check written down ban lists and compare them with players, they shouldn't have to KEEP KICKING known trolls who KEEP rejoining. They shouldn't have to deal with mass unpublishing due incentivise better admins. Mods do nothing about this. When multiple games were ruined by the same players with a MODERATER watching, they did NOTHING. Mods did NOTHING.

They forced this issue. They pussied out when it came to making the proper decision so the only solution is to let mapmakers moderate their games. This is a much better and much more efficient way of dealing with griefers and troublemakers and it should have been put in the moment we had custom maps.

This is happening. It is going to happen and you will like it. The positives far outweigh the negatives. The communtiy wholesale backs this.

Написано Tik-Tok, 22.06.2014 at 13:32

Написано minusSeven, 22.06.2014 at 12:24

First Its not up you. Second Banning people are just the things the mods are for. The power I think won't be given directly to the map creators.

It is. Almost all custom games in other games ban griefers. Tunder and Adog are just trolling. If they do stupid shit, I wont collectivise with them. I dont get why they are posting these ridiculous claims of what they will do becuase they arent helping their cause but the fundamental point is this. THEY BUILT THEIR content. They can shit it off at anytime, they share that content to play with others.

Ownership of that content and labor is fine by me. Preventing trolls for hurting other games is fine by me.

Listen here, the whole community backed us on this. We shut down maps and scenarios with community backing because your petty idea that admins can kick is not enough.
Admins shouldnt have to check written down ban lists and compare them with players, they shouldn't have to KEEP KICKING known trolls who KEEP rejoining. They shouldn't have to deal with mass unpublishing due incentivise better admins. Mods do nothing about this. When multiple games were ruined by the same players with a MODERATER watching, they did NOTHING. Mods did NOTHING.

They forced this issue. They pussied out when it came to making the proper decision so the only solution is to let mapmakers moderate their games. This is a much better and much more efficient way of dealing with griefers and troublemakers and it should have been put in the moment we had custom maps.

This is happening. It is going to happen and you will like it. The positives far outweigh the negatives. The communtiy wholesale backs this.

Don't think it will happen exactly the way you think it will happen. As a mod said before they are looking at ways to prevent someone from misusing this scheme. And as far as the whole community backing
the idea I think what the whole community wants is trolling in 20 people game to stop with immediate effect. They don't want this to be misused in anyway. I think allowing map makers to ban players are
recipe for future trouble. Host can and do kick player who troll anyway. Like low ranks taking big countries in ww1 or ww2 are kicked and everyone is fine with that idea.

There is a reason why Mods are Mods. They rarely make decision that was clearly rouge. Yes sometimes they may not take appropriate decision that you believe was required but then that whole thing completely open to interpretation.

Написано Tik-Tok, 22.06.2014 at 13:20

Написано Columna Durruti, 21.06.2014 at 07:34

A map or scenario is like a private property of public interest, which means that there is a higher responsibility of managing them well (SP farming maps, ban list, etc.).

I understand what you are saying but I dont like that language usage. Its used many times to justify terrible policy. I prefer freedom of association but this isnt a homegrown territorial garden community. Its a game site. Ive said many times before that I have no intention to ban people unless they grief.

If some people want to act childish, let them. But I seriously doubt you are going to see anyone banning others for simply having different political, racial or sexual differences. I never did and dont intend to in the future. Its a game where most of us voluntarily communicate and play with one another. That is very different from the real world.

Besides, some people might want to collectivise ban lists which Im happy to do if evidence is provided but Im not going to do so if they ban people for mundane and personal issues.

But to be perfectly honest, if you insult and swear and bitch at an admin, you deserve what you get. I dont care most of the time but some admins will and they have every right not to share content with people hostile to them. Mods here certanly dont.

100% support. Mods need to understand I do not want to play with hostile individuals.

I just like to say that if you make the map then it is your property, why does it matter who you ban from it? Its yours if they dislike it then make there own, if they love it they wont fight with you and will try to come to an agreements on terms of being unbanned on the map, all im saying is that we are the ones who spend hours and hours making them we are the ones wasting our times in the starting lobby trying to get 20 players to start a game just to have it trolled, in all fairness it should work like this, trusted map makers should be ble to aplly to have the ban function, if someone abuses the power they should be taken on the list to have ban feature, dont just give it to everyone cuase your right the community is full of idiots and abuse is gonna happen without regulation but then again trolls are abusing game lobbies cuase they arent getting punished so abuse will always be there but this was good people can get some justice,

Thats cool lol ill just delete it all then :/ since in no way do ivan or amok do any of the work.

They gave us the tools to do the work i take that back.

Написано minusSeven, 22.06.2014 at 14:05

Host can and do kick player who troll anyway. Like low ranks taking big countries in ww1 or ww2 are kicked and everyone is fine with that idea.

Hosts cant do this job all the time. If hosts did a proper job, it wouldnt fail but it has failed forcing these ban lists. People are not psychic, they dont know who trolls. Getting to rank 6 requires effort but trolls have proven effective at doing it.

Написано minusSeven, 22.06.2014 at 14:05

There is a reason why Mods are Mods. They rarely make decision that was clearly rouge. Yes sometimes they may not take appropriate decision that you believe was required but then that whole thing completely open to interpretation.

Mods failed their job. Mods dont do their job. I dont trust mods do do an effective job. The people who started all this commited their acts in front of a mod. They did so repeatedly and after they had their pathetic commitee and consensus which took over a week, they gave a warning which the players didnt listen to and mocked their punishment & harassed players who enacted the strike.

Mods failed. So we're stepping in. We will do a much better job of sifting out trolls and griefers by ourselves.

Написано Tik-Tok, 24.06.2014 at 10:22

Mods failed their job. Mods dont do their job. I dont trust mods do do an effective job. The people who started all this commited their acts in front of a mod. They did so repeatedly and after they had their pathetic commitee and consensus which took over a week, they gave a warning which the players didnt listen to and mocked their punishment & harassed players who enacted the strike.

Mods failed. So we're stepping in. We will do a much better job of sifting out trolls and griefers by ourselves.

Yeah, good luck with that. And if you fail I will be the first one to come to the forums claiming how map makers failed to do their job, how they don't do their job and how I don't trust them to have such a power because they can't do an effective job. And by that I mean any map maker who makes a mistake.

Написано Pinheiro, 24.06.2014 at 10:31

Yeah, good luck with that. And if you fail I will be the first one to come to the forums claiming how map makers failed to do their job, how they don't do their job and how I don't trust them to have such a power because they can't do an effective job. And by that I mean any map maker who makes a mistake.

Consistent reports of repeat troll joiners who are never punished despite persistent admin kicking.

Consistent reports of trolls ruining games

4 full games ruined over a period of 3 hours with 20+ eye witness, moderator eye witness and mod voted guilt consensus.

Outcome?
A weeks silence until I pressured mods into acting and then a goddamn warning for a single player who then continues to troll the very people they forced to wait for nothing.
You are like a police force that watches a serial killer commit multiple murders then only gives him a slap on the wrist a week later after the community demands justice.

You system is broke. We intend to fix it.

Написано Tik-Tok, 24.06.2014 at 10:38

Написано Pinheiro, 24.06.2014 at 10:31

Yeah, good luck with that. And if you fail I will be the first one to come to the forums claiming how map makers failed to do their job, how they don't do their job and how I don't trust them to have such a power because they can't do an effective job. And by that I mean any map maker who makes a mistake.

Consistent reports of repeat troll joiners who are never punished despite persistent admin kicking.

Consistent reports of trolls ruining games

4 full games ruined over a period of 3 hours with 20+ eye witness, moderator eye witness and mod voted guilt consensus.

Outcome?
A weeks silence until I pressured mods into acting and then a goddamn warning for a single player who then continues to troll the very people they forced to wait for nothing.
You are like a police force that watches a serial killer commit multiple murders then only gives him a slap on the wrist a week later after the community demands justice.

You system is broke. We intend to fix it.

Oh god! Are companies trying to take out more control of the govement?. Let put a lake. The govement ( devs) give comanies (MapMarkers) the right for explote the lake to their benefit. But, companies where having problems with people entrying to the lake(trolls), and making it more dirty, so companies demanded and got permission for ban possible Dirty people(trolls). However, who will control the entrance to the lake? There is the problems.

" We already know who are those. We will make a good use of it" - MapMarkers.

" We want it to be secured and non exploitable on ANY WAY" - Devs.

You know Tik... Maybe yes, there are some respectful MapMarker which only will ban trolls and that.... BUT you need to regonize, even if they are
smaller and their map are not much played ( on normal words, crap.) Still some MapMarker can ABUSE this power. And even if their map is small (crap) It is still annonying. However, I must admit most MapMarker arent that disrespectful. And it would fast-up the enforcing of ban list A LOT.

So, giving MapMarkers controls gives us a Fast, well but NOT TOTALLY secured way.
In the other hands, Giving Mods that power will make a Secured, but SLOW way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some people like Speed. Others like to be safe. On my personal opinion, I would like a hybrid mix between those two. I mean, giving MapMarkers the control for some days (~3 days) for ban some people that they already know are trolls. Then, after the 3 days, the power pass to Moderators hands. Moderator will ban according to proof and some mechanic.

There also should be a mechanic for people who want to claim their unfair banning, defense, those suff. And one for commit their offense and, If mapmarkers agreed, unban them. But this is only my though!!!!!!!!!!.

Написано clovis1122, 24.06.2014 at 12:50

So, giving MapMarkers controls gives us a Fast, well but NOT TOTALLY secured way
In the other hands, Giving Mods that power will make a Secured, but SLOW way.

There was zero security with mods doing it. It wasnt slow. it didnt exist.

Написано clovis1122, 24.06.2014 at 12:50

Some people like Speed.

There was no speed with mods. They did NOTHING. NOTHING!!!!! For Over a YEAR! And the one time we had consistent trolls of high rank continually harass the same game 4 TIMES. They mods DID NOTHING.

Написано clovis1122, 24.06.2014 at 12:50

Others like to be safe.

Safety from what? Being banned for breaking rules? Every person on my ban lists has broken the rules. Every single one. Ive already made it clear I do not support Adogs personal shit.

Написано clovis1122, 24.06.2014 at 12:50

Then, after the 3 days, the power pass to Moderators hands.

Nothing will happen. If my maps are going to be safe from griefers, they need a consistent regular banhammer against griefers. Not week long consensus from an incompetant group of mods.

Написано clovis1122, 24.06.2014 at 12:50

There also should be a mechanic for people who want to claim their unfair banning, defense, those suff. And one for commit their offense and, If mapmarkers agreed, unban them. But this is only my though!!!!!!!!!!.

I give people second chances when they asked me. Ive given third chances too. They continually break rules. I have made it clear, I wont be banning people for personal shit. I never did.
But if youve broken the rules multiple times in the past without a single apology. Its permanent.

Ive said multiple times, I dont support banning people for personal rubbish. But Ive also said that if you treat someone like a dick, why should they give you access to their content?
But to be perfectly honest, my gripe is griefers. Not restricting access to people I dont like and I have never restricted access to people I dont like.

Unleashed ruined my map
Tito copied it

Are they on the ban list? No.

Im getting tired of this wait. Ive made my point enough times. If someone has an issue, talk to a mod. mod will sort it out. I dont support personal reasons. If a map maker goes overboard, restrict his ability to auto ban. Simple stuff.

Написано Tik-Tok, 24.06.2014 at 10:38

You system is broke. We intend to fix it.

One person didn't act in one occasion, so the system is obviously broken.

I've supported your suggestion and was willing to help, but your fully negative point of view make me wanna sit and watch your perfect system working. Why do you feel the need to put yourself in a higher position, as if the devs were spending their time just to please your particular needs?

I will be here to comment on map-makers behavior after the banlist is implemented too.

I have also said that I will be forgiving certain pllyers on my ban lists. Some accounts are mid ranks which are alts that will be banned. Certain high ranks will be unbanned under the condition that any single future rule breaking will lead to permanent ban.

I will not be banning people on other peoples enemy list. Im not going to organise any collectivised ban lists until after they are setup by which I will require evidence of actual griefing. I will be organising time based bans based on the offense.

I will personally setup a fair system. A system which specifically targets griefers and will forgive rulebreakers if they can prove their innocence. But I dont appreciate liars and schemers. I will be harsh if you bullshit me on breaking a rule and I will treat you as a griefer.

I dont expect special treatment, nor do I expect to be treated any different. I dont like the thought of people walking on egg shells around me. Im not going to ban you for calling me a cunt. I never did before.

I only sought to stop griefers ruining our games. Any mapmakers who wanted something more do not have my backing.

Написано Pinheiro, 24.06.2014 at 14:11

One person didn't act in one occasion, so the system is obviously broken.

There was no system. The mod team failed to act for over a year. Grifers were so cocky due to your inaction, they griefer 4 games in a row with a mod watching and laughed while doing it.

Написано Pinheiro, 24.06.2014 at 14:11

I've supported your suggestion and was willing to help

My remarks were not on any particular mod. It was against the whole mod team for failing to act properly against griefing. I know some mods tried very hard to get consensus on griefing.

Написано Pinheiro, 24.06.2014 at 14:11

Why do you feel the need to put yourself in a higher position

I gain nothing from this except the ability to play decent games. Griefers have killed the reputation on many maps as unplayable due to their actions.

Написано Pinheiro, 24.06.2014 at 14:11

as if the devs were spending their time just to please your particular needs?

Thats what happens when you sell a product to customers. These arent my personal needs, they are the needs of the collective.

Написано Pinheiro, 24.06.2014 at 14:11

I will be here to comment on map-makers behavior after the banlist is implemented too.

I just said, restrict the ability if some mapmakers go overboard. By that I mean if they ban for personal crap.

So basically, you're the exact thing Pin and CD are saying they don't want:

"I don't like him so he's banned"

Написано Dr Lecter, 24.06.2014 at 16:40

So basically, you're the exact thing Pin and CD are saying they don't want:

"I don't like him so he's banned"

why not? clearly if he dont like you, you had to off did some sort of aggression twards him and in which case he did the work on the map he dont want to allow you to play it, it would be up to you to fix the mistake and end the fued at that point.

Написано Helly, 24.06.2014 at 17:44

Написано Dr Lecter, 24.06.2014 at 16:40

So basically, you're the exact thing Pin and CD are saying they don't want:

"I don't like him so he's banned"

why not? clearly if he dont like you, you had to off did some sort of aggression twards him and in which case he did the work on the map he dont want to allow you to play it, it would be up to you to fix the mistake and end the fued at that point.

Because striking a fella' wrong constitutes a ban.

sorry but I am not for map makers having unchecked ability to ban. You'll start banning people over personal bias, probably even form some petty private union to ban whoever the hell disagrees with your views and such.

#saynotosadistmapmakers2k14

Написано Tik-Tok, 24.06.2014 at 14:25

I have also said that I will be forgiving certain pllyers on my ban lists. Some accounts are mid ranks which are alts that will be banned. Certain high ranks will be unbanned under the condition that any single future rule breaking will lead to permanent ban.

I will not be banning people on other peoples enemy list. Im not going to organise any collectivised ban lists until after they are setup by which I will require evidence of actual griefing. I will be organising time based bans based on the offense.

I will personally setup a fair system. A system which specifically targets griefers and will forgive rulebreakers if they can prove their innocence. But I dont appreciate liars and schemers. I will be harsh if you bullshit me on breaking a rule and I will treat you as a griefer.

I dont expect special treatment, nor do I expect to be treated any different. I dont like the thought of people walking on egg shells around me. Im not going to ban you for calling me a cunt. I never did before.

I only sought to stop griefers ruining our games. Any mapmakers who wanted something more do not have my backing.

No no no! that is not the Mod's point.

*) YOU will make a respect use of this power. OTHERS wont. And we win nothing with only 1 MapMarker doing it right and 10000 abusing of it.

*) Why so hating against Moderators? I mean, you are going FULLY NEGATIVE against them, I mean, this:

Написано Pinheiro, 24.06.2014 at 14:11

I've supported your suggestion and was willing to help, but your fully negative point of view make me wanna sit and watch your perfect system working. Why do you feel the need to put yourself in a higher position, as if the devs were spending their time just to please your particular needs?

Give them a chance... I know it is hazarding when someone troll a game people waited much for start, but Mods couldnt do anything eitle, because as chulhu say:

" There is a rule which allow us to punishe the act of Trolling, but Not the act of leaving a game."

This may slowed their actions. Mods just need to fix that rule for make it according to the new trolling systems ( and regonize leave game as trolling ).

I am not intended to defend Mods, but I dont think they are that bad, and also I prefer they to have the power that MapMarkers, because Mods have a commitment with the community, MapMarkers doesnt.

But let say, there is a scenario where Mods doesnt do their job.... Then all you need to do is to talk to them ON PRIVATE. if they still doesnt listen, then ask Devs. If Devs doesnt reply, Then start a riot like you did for the ban list.

If you still want MapMarkers to have the power for ban people on their scenario, then you should know you will be the only one who doesnt abuse it, and there will be A LOT of people complaining about MapMarkers banning unfair, and they will start a riot.... and in the end, Mods will have that power. Simply as that.

Написано clovis1122, 25.06.2014 at 06:29

*) YOU will make a respect use of this power. OTHERS wont. And we win nothing with only 1 MapMarker doing it right and 10000 abusing of it.

Then restrict it those trusted to use & give it to those who ask for it who can prove they can follow the guidelines given.

Написано clovis1122, 25.06.2014 at 06:29

*) Why so hating against Moderators? I mean, you are going FULLY NEGATIVE against them, I mean, this:

Because their inaction against 4 ruined games within a few hours with multiple eye witnesses was the final straw over a year of griefing. Mods simply washed their hands and said 'WE CANT DO ANYTHING." We have had enough.

Написано clovis1122, 25.06.2014 at 06:29

Give them a chance... I know it is hazarding when someone troll a game people waited much for start, but Mods couldnt do anything eitle, because as chulhu say:

>Mods couldnt do anything
Exactly. And they wont.

Написано clovis1122, 25.06.2014 at 06:29

This may slowed their actions. Mods just need to fix that rule for make it according to the new trolling systems ( and regonize leave game as trolling ).

Too complicated. They couldnt come to a decision after a week with over 20 eye witnesses, screencaps and a moderator eye witness. They cant even come to a proper decision on when leaving is trollish or not. Leave it up to the mapmakers to decide whether a leaver broke the rules of the map.

Написано clovis1122, 25.06.2014 at 06:29

But let say, there is a scenario where Mods doesnt do their job.... Then all you need to do is to talk to them ON PRIVATE. if they still doesnt listen, then ask Devs. If Devs doesnt reply, Then start a riot like you did for the ban list.

Thats what happened in the first place.

Around 2-3 mapmakers have vocally said they are going to wholesale ban their entire enemy list. Thats an extreme minority. Mods are making out that this is the majority. It isnt and those posting this view are trolling or childish. I dont support that and have no issue with mdos restricting access to autoban to those who intend to do that.