Eventually it will die out

Написано clovis1122, 16.09.2014 at 23:39

–► Say I am wrong.
► No proof.

Wanna discuss about how was Afterwind, Desu?

That's cause Desu wasn't debating. I you're talking about thunder, maybe you can stop avoiding his arguments.

Написано clovis1122, 16.09.2014 at 23:49

Desu has stated somenthing without give any fact or opinion. I am not the type of guy that can accept arbitrary statements.

You're looking right at the proof. One of many.

Написано clovis1122, 17.09.2014 at 00:16

Написано Mr_Own_U, 17.09.2014 at 00:15

It's was very good

Where there any training coalition? How was the rank 6 in general? In which rank did you started to play competitive? What rank was the mayority of people you saw in your time playing 3vs3 ? Did someone trained you?

---

My experienced was based in this reality. I joined the competitive gameplay as rank 4, when hdrakon ( slovenija) picked me up. I followed him to U.L.P, and in that time the clan was very active. I learned how to play in 5k which was the standard in that time, with my favorite strat in that time: GW.

For join ULP I had to fight the leader, GlennMiller. He was still rank 7. I got stranged that the settings where 10k, so I picked france GW. He went SM ukraine. With some train from hdrakon, in turn 2 the first thing I did was saw the battle log and discover my enemy strategy. I told him in gamechat: " lol you are SM right?" which Glenn replied: " Yes lol". I had to disconect in turn 3 because electricity issues, but he accepted me in ULP.

Yet one day hdrakon got banned on his slovenija account. He recovered his main acc and wanted me to follow him to VS, which I replied no. I dont like to swap between a clan and another. I stayed in ULP. All the games I played in that period where 4vs4 5k or whole world, I knew nothing about 3vs3.

When I started to met the 10k settings was as rank 5, I dueled someone called YazanTheSexy( rank 7). It was turkey vs ukraine, and since I had the idea that GW work's everywhere I lost very fast. He asked me for tie and told me that he didnt wanted to insult my friend intentionally, which I accepted, but still got mad with myself about that poory developement. Sometime after that I played a classic 1vs1 with hdrakon as I used to, but found this time that he charged the OP gw for PD : The 10k was already the standard settings.

Following the new trends, I started to get the infantry upgrades. I was still rank 6 while all the 3vs3 where rank 7, however, the 3vs3 hosted for rank 6 where still up 1 of 3 times. I joined theses, and picked turkey again. This time I read some forums in my clan and went IMP. I won that 3vs3. It was my first victory in a competitive game. However, all theses 3vs3 for rank 6 started to dry: There was a time where I barely find any 3vs3. I met people like Username here.

U.L.P also saw my progress into the competitiving, and I played my first CW with them. I picked PD UK, which was somenthing new in that way as the trends where IF uk IF germany. Yet I got killed very fast specially because I was using PD like GW: attacking with infantry everywhere. It was my first lost in a CW, but I learned a lot from it.

Sadly, U.L.P started to dry, and great person that I met there like Armenian Arch, Circilian, ThunderUp, and Comrade In Arm left the clan. Another thing that pushed me hard was watching hdrakon training more peoples, and when I asked him for a classic 1vs1 he declined - I met funtime in this period. He was brillant for his rank, somenthing you can expect when hdrakon train someone. This didnt stopped me though, I keep playing my 3vs3 and whole world games. I also read learster post and learned MoS, it soon turned into my favorite strategy, replacing GW. I found my way to rank 7 in this period.

The Merge came: A bunch of my friends where either inactives or left the game officially. I can point theses names: Epic_Matt one of my best friends, ThunderUP ( even though I hate him D:), Cicilian, sixstar..... even Glenn started to be inactive. I also met General Kratore, back in my times, he was just "Kratore". He joined as rank 7 to ULP, and left because the clan was already inactive. After the refund of the SP I charged my beloved marines upgrades for the more competitive infantry ones.

After that it was a rail down, the competence was drying day per day. I could say rank 7 could match rank 10 for very few months: All the others training clans die.

I actually got fun by writting this, because I remembed a lot of funny suff. Here a few SS of the people I will miss:

TL;DR

And Rank 3. Thanks to spart. I was a very good Rank 5, 6, 7. Atleast to me and what others said.

Mr.own.u why u feel the need to bully clovis on every oppurtunity.especially using low blows like talking about how he is not that good with his english.Its pathetic.

clovis you are obviously wrong, but i liked your post.good ol times

bonker rank 9 OP
clovis rank9 > clovis rank 10
rip lemonade
rip MOD spart
rip kruuna
rip old Mou who was cool and not a cunt
not rip thunderballs
not rip LDK
innate worst rank 7 in history of atwar (i prefered to use chill rank 4 or tl_god rank 5 in cw when in 187)

Написано clovis1122, 17.09.2014 at 18:53

Yeah, there is no point in debating if you keep ignoring everything I post.

► In all the screenshot you can see a very good part of my competence career from 8 to 10. You prefer to ignore it rathery that analize it.

► Even MOU say he showed a great developement when he got trained. He was good rank 5, 6 and 7. He also beat TopHats as rank 7.

► Both Leaf and Desu, as well as Laochra are posting for the mere purpose of either insult or say I am wrong. What if they stop doing this, and start counting how was atWar in their time?

Or even more important: what about if YOU count us how was your competitive life in that time? oh wait, forgot you didnt had.

My premise is enforced by facts, Screenshot and other user's facts. Your premise is only enforced in YOUR opinion and facts which have no relation to the premise in general.

Ex: back when I was rank 4, both hdrakon and me where training for GW and had some nice 1vs1 fights over 5k europe. He was rank 10 ( or his banned account was) with a lot of knowledges, and I still managed to win some few games. Not all the games, Not a lot of games, but a very few ones: Like for every 10 games I won 3 and lost 7.

Ex: As rank 8 I had a lot of duels against Goblin, Eagles and Lemonade, they all where rank 10. Didnt they had all the upgrades already? Didnt they had a lot more knowledge that me? Didnt they where high ranks in that time? And still so, for every 10 games I had an average of 6 victory and 4 loses with both Eagles and Lemonade, while 3 victory 7 loses against goblin ( 3 mins op....). Still, I got my victorys as low rank.

Ex: The own laochra made a rank 3 account for catch bluecher2 farming elo. In one hand, you have a rank 3 with very few( or none) upgrades and no general against a rank 10 fully upgraded and with general + more knowledge that laochra in the game. Even so, Laochra still did a very good fight. More information can be found either asking own Laochra or looking at the Hall of fame.


There are many fact's. They provide you the answer: Rank and Upgrade doesnt matte. Even Desu pointed on his guide the most important upgrades for play competitive. They only requires 50K SP or even less, somenthing you can buy before get rank 7.

Написано Desu, 26.09.2013 at 12:08

You must head for these upgrades immediately, skip everything else to be competitive:

#1 - Air Transport Capacity
#2 - Faster Infantry - The most important upgrade, ever. Get it.
#3 - Air Transport Capacity II
#4 - Cheaper Infantry - Most expensive unit upgrade for a reason. Get it.

If you do not have these, you are not playing at the top of your game. I'm going to assume you can figure out what other upgrades to get with your clan mates. Ask them. They are there to help you.

And for when you have all the above three, and some of the strategies/other upgrades you want, to play in an advance game you might want these:
#4 - General: Movement Range
#5 - General: Infantry Attack
#6 - General: Tank Attack
#7 - General: Bomber Attack

Here is a link to all the upgrades and their costs:

http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=6309

But in chase you want to say general is unbeatable then we can leave it up to rank 7 and 8, when you get enough and even more for the important gen upgrades. In rank 7 or 8 you can have all the important upgrades.

Oh wait, you wanna say that Lucky upgrades are OP? XAXAXAXAXA ok, if you had premium with the SP discount on upgrades you can get all them on rank 9 and half.

Now, what is the upgrade difference?

Most of this is just irrelevant, followed by 2 fallacies (not gonna bother to specify because you don't know how to debate and have no intentions in doing so).

Ranks 8+ are considered high rank. Or are you gonna say now that rank 8 is low rank? Because I won't be surprised if you did.

Let's put a rank 3 with no training vs a rank 10 with no training like me

Написано clovis1122, 17.09.2014 at 19:42

Написано Tundy, 17.09.2014 at 19:36

Most of this is just irrelevant, followed by 2 fallacies (not gonna bother to specify because you don't know how to debate and have no intentions in doing so).

Ranks 8+ are considered high rank. Or are you gonna say now that rank 8 is low rank? Because I won't be surprised if you did.

Let's put a rank 3 with no training vs a rank 10 with no training like me

Dont cover out. I specified in all my post I was refering about rank 7-9. You still keep arguing in defense of the high ranks without specific anything. I find that of " I was refering to 8+ all the time" as very lame from your part. Admit your high rank argument lost already, rathery that try to cover your words and adapt it to mine.

You say you didnt got training? because if so then we will need to call a mad scientific and delete all the forum post you've readed.

You've earned all that knowledge and still say you didnt got any train?

Are you saying rank 8-9 was not high rank before Custom maps?

So now is impossible to get skilled in atwar without help?

I read a lot of this threat <skipped the irrelevant personal arguments> and here's my input:

I'm an avid RP player, got sucked in after a few months of joining AW around the time UN began fading. I was never concerned about being competitive with 3v3s/basic Euro+ games. My 'skill' is nonexistent; I'm a 'noob'. I wanted to play the role of an empire and make friends <to escape reality> , not compete for a coalition. And it worked at first but....

Here are just a ramble of things I've wanted to get off my chest for a while:

I leveled up with other RP players as time went along. A lot of people who play RP usually die out of the game and a fraction of them are successfully won over, or 'saved', by the skilled players. My 'generation' died out eventually, because all of a sudden I was a middle rank player amid younger ranks where I used to be, then eventually I've come to be a high rank surrounded by low ranks who do not know me, and even despise me <b/c of a later point below>.
New players' wacky interpretation of the rules is where it started. All of a sudden, sh*t like ally-fagging and gang-banging became a norm. I honestly do not understand why they do this. I try to look at it objectively, but maybe a skilled player can help me clear my fog.
A few 'skilled' players' have begun getting out of hand. High ranks protest by going into the damn games and ruining them on purpose! <That is not the right answer, as 'remakes of remakes' can prove.>

I sympathize with all those with strong valid arguments against RP, and I do what I can by changing up settings, like instead of 50k, I bring the money to 5k or 10k.. to teach the players any sense of money management. but they don't like it. They like something I see as a safezone. They don't care to try flexing the game up a little. Some high ranks do though like those failed attempts. We'd at least either need to add a few more rules to help solve some issues, or take down Tempted's map. <idk if that's possible, i'm just speaking as if I was secretary of those with power>

I love recalling the past when RP was more tame. Few few young ranks get the right gist of it, and I hold the lifeboats out for them, but gg otherwise.

I feel all this trouble was not foreseen by the mapmakers. Idk, I wasn't along back then.

Either way, since I recently became a leader of United Power, I've decided to leave RP and try out 3v3/Eu+ games now. Time to get competitive <I really am nooby, like r5 equivalent skilled <<sry>> >. So, the above thoughts are something the ElmoKilljoy of a month ago would totally vouch for.

Sh*t... what did I just type? so much whim. I need sleep.

I've deleted some comments on this thread since it were basically personal attacks or irrelevant posts. I don't feel the need to lock this thread since I believe it's a valid discussion, but please avoid turning this into a flame war.

Good luck with improving your skills elmo, better late than never!

Написано clovis1122, 19.09.2014 at 22:18

Check out this rank 5, palacios.

Everybody who was there though he was an alt. He play incredibly good and as rank 5 he actually use both PD and RA. The surprice was when we discovered that he was not an alt...

It was already establish a long time ago that you lost the argument.
Not only that, but this new comment that you made, is irrelevant.

clovis struggles to kill a noob rank 5 trained in magical society
lel this is funny

Написано clovis1122, 17.09.2014 at 21:47

Написано Tundy, 17.09.2014 at 21:06

Are you saying rank 8-9 was not high rank before Custom maps?

So now is impossible to get skilled in atwar without help?

Well no, my bad. Rank 9 is already high rank, however, In the original argument Jared compared high rank to a 10 rank player, while giving low rank to 7 rank player. In reality, or at least in what I have been taughed, low rank is from 1 to 5, medium rank is from 6 to 8, and high rank is 9+.

I took off Jared's comparicion to a rank 10 vs a rank 7. I dont know what other peoples define as "high rank", so I took jared definition. Again, there are different opinions, people such as DR.TrollFace even define high rank as 11+ ( those annonying 2vs2 for rank 11 op....)

Написано Quantum027, 13.09.2014 at 22:48

rank 8s and 9s being the best ranks before this merge, how the hell does this even matter, i was talking about low ranks beating high ranks, the actual number isnt the point, its that in reality, high ranks beat low ranks in nearly every time they play,

Clovis, you are stupid?
That was his second point, yet you decided to IGNORE his statement and you keep barking.

The main argument is about how rank use to matter, i used low ranks vs high ranks as a example
Jarebd made clear that high ranks is 8+, yet you decided to keep posting shit as if low ranks is 0-9.

Написано clovis1122, 20.09.2014 at 08:00

Написано Tundy, 19.09.2014 at 22:50

It was already establish a long time ago that you lost the argument.
Not only that, but this new comment that you made, is irrelevant.

You actually lost the argument, noob. When you couldn't stop it you tried to includes rank 9 in your argument, and failed on big time.

You know why AW is drying? because people like YOU keep desmotivating and insulting lowranks. They will never grow if people like YOU exist in atWar. Do us a favor and kill youself. AW wont progress as long as people like YOU keep bullying lowranks. We, in MS recluit him because we saw potencial on him. He dueled me and the screenshot confilm you he is not a clan hopper - he know how to wall and the importance to take all the cities of a country - he know where to expand. We saw hope on him. We recluit him.

The screenshot just confirm that not all low ranks are noobs. There is still hope and some of them can get saved. What are doing YOU for train lowranks? nothing. In the Afterwind society, there was training clans that where doing somenthing more useful that all you've done in your misery life.

I finally understand what people like unleashed say. I tried to explain you gently, but now is the time for be rude.

Fallacy! Fallacy and more fallacy!

How is it confirmation that he is not a noob? The low ranks that i trained are better than him.
Bactria is a decent training clan.

Написано clovis1122, 20.09.2014 at 09:56

Написано Tundy, 20.09.2014 at 09:27

Clovis, you are stupid?
That was his second point, yet you decided to IGNORE his statement and you keep barking.

The main argument is about how rank use to matter, i used low ranks vs high ranks as a example
Jarebd made clear that high ranks is 8+, yet you decided to keep posting shit as if low ranks is 0-9.

And basically you didnt read the next statement. I confilmed Jared that rank rank 8s and 9s where the best before the merge and before the rise of UN. In what we disagreed was in rank 10 vs rank 7. Thunder, read before post. The whole argument was between rank 10 vs rank 7, until you came and generalized it ( and yes you started with the rank 10 vs rank 7 discussion).

Написано Tundy, 20.09.2014 at 09:33

Fallacy! Fallacy and more fallacy!

How is it confirmation that he is not a noob? The low ranks that i trained are better than him.
Bactria is a decent training clan.

Poor of Bactrias guys, if you call them noobs all the times and insult them as you are doing in this threat. I serious dont think they will move foward in your hands.

How can you even consider you a traineer if you dont see that low ranks have potencial, they can learn and apply knowledges if you teach them, and they can match rank 10s if they get trained. Poor of them for have a guy like you.

I think you lack the proper english skills to understand jared's comment, and your response to him only affirms my belief that you aren't capable of responding something relevant.

Btw clovis, stop lying: first you say that jared was not specific about ranks 8-10 and now you are saying that you did knew all this time.

I can't withstand the amount of bullshit that you post

1.- you ignore arguments
2.- post irrelevant posts
3.- lies
4.- claims he meant something else
5.- personal attacks
6.- puts words in my mouth

Написано clovis1122, 20.09.2014 at 10:22

Thunder, we where talking about rank 7 vs rank 10. I confilmed Jared argument that rank 8s and 9s are the ones which composed the mayority of 3vs3's, which you declined. Even knowing that I was refering to that group, you still keep arguing. You saw in almost all my post that I was refering to theses ranks, yet you still keep arguing about. I'l quote myself before you come to misunderstand my words:

Написано Tundy, 12.09.2014 at 22:16

Actually, ranks use to matter, since before custom maps rank use to be the equivalent of experience and therefore skill.

This is the main argument, this is what started the debate, everything after this is not an argument, but an example. You claimed rank didn't matters, PROVE IT.

Написано clovis1122, 13.09.2014 at 22:16

why rank didn't matte much in Afterwind:

► Clan War where very stricty, but way better that they are now. There also was a very high amount of <<training clans>>

You said training was one of the reasons of why Rank didn't matter

Написано clovis1122, 15.09.2014 at 17:07

Написано Tundy, 15.09.2014 at 08:20

Do you agree that a low rank is only good if he gets trained?

for the bigger part this is a no.

Then you claimed training doesn't matter!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Написано clovis1122, 17.09.2014 at 21:47

I took off Jared's comparicion to a rank 10 vs a rank 7. I dont know what other peoples define as "high rank", so I took jared definition. Again, there are different opinions, people such as DR.TrollFace even define high rank as 11+ ( those annonying 2vs2 for rank 11 op....)

Написано Quantum027, 13.09.2014 at 22:48

rank 8s and 9s being the best ranks before this merge, how the hell does this even matter, i was talking about low ranks beating high ranks, the actual number isnt the point, its that in reality, high ranks beat low ranks in nearly every time they play, now with RP there are more rank 8s and 9s and they tend to lose more, but the past still stands about rank 7s beating rank 10s is a rare event

Jarebd is clearly considering ranks 8 and 9 as high ranks. and he tells you that ranks 8 and 9 being the best is not even relevant to the argument, and YET, you still repeat the same claim!
also look at your argument, its contradictory as you later stated that trainning doesn't matter:

Написано clovis1122, 14.09.2014 at 10:56

It was not a rare event. It was very common. Already posted you some points about why rank 7 had a competitive envioment and was capable of beat rank 10. If you get the right upgrades according to your favorite strat, then there was not upgrade difference at all. The training clans exist for it. The best players where between rank 8 and 9, theses where the ones which compose most of the 3vs3.

I used the terms low rank and high rank, because my argument is about the fact that rank matters, not about ranks 7 beating ranks 10 or viseversa.
You are the one making false assumptions and claiming ranks 0-9 are low rank.

Написано clovis1122, 20.09.2014 at 10:22

The whole threat started with rank 10 vs rank 7. I confilmed jared that rank 8-9 are the ones which compose the mayority of 3vs3, while disagreed to not incluide rank 7 in this group.

Even knowing that I was refering to rank 7-9, you still keep arguing about it. Who is the one who actually didnt read the post? Didn't I specified in almost all my post, that I was refering to rank 7-9, while you started off with the argument of rank 10+ ? Read for god sake.

► Call my threat bullshit.
► Pinheiro deleted almost all your threats, while mines where intact.
► I deleted mines because you was making blocks of quotes. You can ask Pinheiro for confilm this.

Who is the one talking bullshit here? of couse you. You cannot argue without insult someone.

All your posts are wrong, because you falsely assumed that me and jarebd considered ranks 0-9 as low rank.
and because you contradict yourself everytime you use trainning as a example.

If you can't read properly, is it my fault? if you can't make valid statements is it my fault? if you assume ranks 9 are low rank, is it my fault?
and even then, you have personally attacked me at least in 3 of your posts, when i haven't used personal attacks at all.


If rank didn't matter, why don't we have clans of ranks 5s, beating illyria and other competitive clans? lel

Цитировать:

Написано clovis1122, 20.09.2014 at 12:10

Nice cutting the real answer. Sorry, you are trying to misunderstand it.

Написано Tundy, 15.09.2014 at 08:20

Do you agree that a low rank is only good if he gets trained?

There are some exeptions of low rank that learn on their own reading forums and asking clanmates without get trained by someone in particular. But for the bigger part this is a no.

This one is the real. I answered that there are exepcions of lowranks that learn from a diferent source, however, theres sources are the ones which are actually used for training. They dont get train from someone in special, but they train theirselves. But for the bigger part, a lowrank is not good if he dont get trained. Here comes my answer.

As for the other points, yes I stated that training does matte. I dont see the problem with them.

Everything Before the word "But" Is Bullshit. Its you attempting to justify your statement, in which you claim "for the bigger part this is a no" which translates into "No, but i am aware there are exceptions"
Your answer is contradictory to "Training is what makes low ranks good"

lets assume that your contradiction was a the result of a bad paragraph format.

why high ranks (8+) train low ranks? (answer this as precise as you can)
why low ranks (0-7) don't train other low ranks? (answer this as precise as you can)

Написано clovis1122, 20.09.2014 at 12:10

ok, I assumed that both you and jared refer to 0-9 as lowrank. However, you also assumed that I refered to rank 0-9 as lowrank. You saw me from the start, claiming jared's point of rank 8s and 9s begin the best, but also incluiding rank 7. However, you never cared enough for specify what is high rank for you, so I assumed you where refering to 10+. How is my fault? I specified in all my post the group I was refering at, and also pointed that people have different definitions about high ranks. However, you never pointed what do you refer as high rank. Since we took this from 10 vs 7 example, I assumed you was talking about 10+.

If you would has specified from the start you was refering as high rank from 8+ then this type of discussion probably would never has happened.

this is why you are not suppose to assume in a debate, i never specified any rank. If you assumed ranks 0-9 were low rank, then that is your own fault. But lets assume ranks 0-9 are low rank.
If rank doesn't matter, then Why do you even use ranks 7-9 as examples? why don't you use ranks 0-1? at the end... rank doesn't matter, right?

if rank doesn't matter, were are the clans full of ranks 0s kicking competitive clan's ass?



Also, big question here clovis ;3

If high ranks can't be good without training, who trained the first trainer?

So how'd this go from support/nonsupport of Role Play to how lower ranks are trained and play on the battlefield, not to mention the wide amount of personal attacks from both sides?

What does it matter how a lower rank plays, each are quite different, be it play style or will to play and get better? Certainly, this can only be related to RP because it is the belief that people who play Role Play are either low ranks or noobs, and that training them will result in the dissolution of RP's fan base and remove it from the game. But, I would still like to remind everyone that map-makers HAVE the option of making maps that focus on one aspect that RP combines; economy and military. Give them Role-Play maps whose high-light of the game is economic ascension and managing an economy or one whose high-light is building an effective strategy to win on the battlefield. It gives RPers the ability to learn while enjoying a casual game(lets face it, can you really expect every game to have a fan base that is devoted to competitive play 100% and no recreational play? Come on.).

Don't feel like it is a way to only train them, but giving them the tool to educate themselves. It gives you the best of both world; sets up lower ranks and noobs for some interest in competitive play and experience with either economic or military size(or both)strains and troubles, while giving them the thing they want; Role Play, a casual game-type, a training program, etc. Make it dynamic, with events to further increase their challenges, but not make other players OP and keep the balance.

Can we not agree to make a compromise and simply enjoy the community we have rather than war over their preference on to play not just this game but games in general? Why dictate their choice so heavily like that and strain the community when other option are available to get both competition and laid-back games?

Yeah, this is going nowhere. Since you were talking about fallacies, you should know how to avoid so many ad hominem in your discussion.

Thread locked.