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22.12.2013 - 12:43


- New Coalition War System Update -




22.12.2013

Hello there, here is the ATN article for this week on the new clan war system update. Hope you enjoy it!





The update was released the fourth of November 2013. The update didn't only included changes to coalitions and coalition wars, but also other updates, which can be found here: http://atwar-game.com/events/news_comments.php?news_id=121. Here is the list of updates that I will be focusing on:


  • Players now receive double SP in CW.
  • Seasons now have 20 games, with the last 20 games counted (as opposed to first 10 previously).
  • The significance of competence is now much lower. CP gained/lost now ranges between 50 and 100 (used to be 1-100). Meaningful competence ranges between 0.75 and 2. Anything below counts as 0.75, anything above counts as 2.

    Let's start with why these changes were undertaken. For a very long time, players who regularly played clan wars have been complaining about the clan war season system and that it should be restructured. There were many suggestions made on the forum on how to change it, however the one that picked up the admins' attention was Desu's. (http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=9657) There has been a lot of discussion in this topic since the admins didn't like Desu's suggestion. However it did make them realize that there should be a change.


    Some players suggested little changes to Desu's suggestion. Ivan, who was discussing in the topic, combined the different suggestions to make one that fit both him and Amok. Even though this is a good step towards achieving more clan wars, there were some who thought that it could have been restructured better. One of them being Desu, who still believes that his idea would make a better incentive for clans to clan war with each other.


    Therefore, I have decided to go ahead and ask a couple of questions to Desu himself. To sum up the interview (can be found at the end of the article), he believed that the old system didn't encourage games and instead limited them. He thought having 10 games was not a big enough sample. For him, this was important because if a game wants to retain more players, it needs a competitive side. Afterwards I asked him some questions on the changes that have been made, his reply was that it was a good step towards a better CW system. However he still thinks that a percentage based system would be better. His suggestion was turned down because according to Ivan, it discourages lower ranked clans to cw higher ranked clans. "The current system discourages fighting higher coalitions as well." was Desu's response to this. He wants to put a solid base so that the community can do the rest.


    Desu had realized the flawed system long ago but didn't do something about it because it never affect him, until the last few months. Being in Stalins Martians, he wanted act on it since the competence penalties were too big. He does feel better with the new update of min/max 50/100cp earned however, now the problem is that already higher competence clans earn 0.05 competence every win. Which is why he would like competence and CP earned to be separated. Last but not least, I asked him what would happen if two clans had the same percentage (in his system). He hadn't given a thought to that yet, however he gave a simple solution of looking at the both clans' record against each other for that season.


    I had asked Ivan for some questions, but unfortunately he hasn't come online the past week to answer them. I will update the article when I have answers from him.


    Afterwards I have gone on atWar to ask some players about the update and what they thought to get a general overview of what the community thinks of the update.


    My question: Question for ATN: What do you think of the new update made to season ranking (last 20 games) and cw's itself (x2 sp)? Is it the best way or would you think it should be improved?

    Here are the answers that I got. I will not give out names, for obvious reasons.

  • I dont know it may need to be improved
  • I still thing we need something like a league system. Now are just 3-4 clans playing cws
  • i support this update and thats all :p 20 is better than only 10
  • there is always room for improvement, but its definetely better than the old system
  • I think there are still a lot of issues with te clan war system but I'm really glad those specific things were implemented
  • best way we have for now, maybe it can be sligthly more improved in the future more fun as we can cw more and get more sp, it will be more fun if admins implement the league, so we can organize cws like football matches
  • Well. i think they dont have to do 100 sp for win or 40 sp But just based on the fact how the clans played
  • I like the idea of the last 20 games. However I don't know if I like that there is pretty much no cap to the season capacitity. And I love the 2x SP personally. I think it will get a lot more people interested in CWing since you profit from it.
  • I think of new update as pointless. All true players have already left, so all they are doing is mixing already great shit into bigger shit
  • its not that good, now you have clans with 8 wins and 12 loses in the top 3. yet 2x sp is a good way to encourage cw's
  • Well, personally, I don't see CW as a big thing currently for AW. So this new update should please those who wanted more flexibility in CW ranking I think CW games should be different itself to promote more entertainment. You get a small handful of people who specialize in small 3v3 maps that dominated the scene, but if world cw start becoming more popular, or even scenario cw, then i would believe cw would be more popular
  • but cw's should give more SP I guess since they are the hardest matches
  • I don't really care either way, cws are just fun to play. The old way was kind of fun though because you really had to fight hard every cw
  • love the x2 SP for cws, I think it's great. For the season ranking thing, I'm more concerned about the competence difference thing rather than the 20 games stuff. I mean I've seen evoL have losing records and be in the top 3 cause of CP and I just don't feel that it's right you know, they could have a losing record and easily win a trophy but it's like do you really deserve one with a record below .500?
  • it does well to increase motivation for playing CWs, especially the double SP bonus and profile distinctions. Minimum 50 points won/lost will definitely be enough motivation for high competence clans to continue CWing. But I am curious as to why the last 20 count instead of the first 20. I can't think of the motivation behind this.
  • it's an improvement on a bad system and that there are lots of possible systems out there in the ideas n suggestions forum.

    From the answers that I got, I can say that most liked the updates, however there were also some who didn't think it was the right update. Therefore most have concluded that there's room for improvement. Some stick with a league system like in sports, we will see if there are changes in the future!


    While asking this question, I found Adiabatic who has another idea for the system. To sum up his idea "So basically I think that the average should be taken, not the first 20 or the last 20. It's not difficult to implement, just use a formula: (total CP for games won)/(total wins)". He believes that this will be a better representation to a clan. His suggestion can be found here: http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=10111&topicsearch=&page=2





    Interview with Desu

    BertanK: Alright, so, first of all, why do you think it was important to change the old CW system?
    Desu: I felt the system didn't encourage more games, and instead limited them. The old system stopped working.
    BertanK: So, why do you think it is important to encourage more CW's? Why is it necessary for the AW community?
    Desu: Clan warring for only 10 games wasn't a level playing field, it's too small a sample to determine ranking. Plus more games played is good for atWar overall. For the AW community, it brings more focus to the competitive side. I believe games need a competitive side to retain more players, rather than having someone interested in atWar for a small amount of time then get bored of it.
    BertanK: Alright, but 10 cw's might have been a big enough sample considering that clans didn't really exceed the max.10 cw's per season. So, did you believe that the max 10 cw's was restricting clans to cw more?
    Desu: Well there was no reason to get more than 10. Always set the bar higher, specially when you have three whole months to do it. Yes I do.
    BertanK: Alright, so what are your thoughts on the changes that have been made to the season ranking system?
    Desu: Well it certainly encourages those that play a lot to have more clan wars, and it isn't a very high target for those that don't play many either. As I said, everybody has three months. I still think it should count every win and every loss for a total percentage, rather than just the last 20. So 17 wins 8 losses would be 25 total, and 68% would go up and rank you against other clans percentages. The higher the total, the less change per cw, and the closer to the desired sample number. But my arguments for that are in the thread that brought the current change anyway, so enough on that.
    BertanK: Well, I guess we'll see if what you have said is true when the season ends. Yes, they are all in your suggestion. Moving on, do you think it is important to make sure that lower skilled/ranked clans are encouraged to cw higher skilled/ranked? Because that was the reason your suggestion was turned down by Ivan. As your suggestion doesn't take that into account.
    Desu: Anyway, I'll summarize a bit of it, but it's better to go read the actual arguments.
    BertanK: Ok, I'll quote that in the article xa
    Desu: The current system discourages fighting higher coalitions as well. There isn't that much of a difference. The clan community itself will create its own tiers and clans they'll allow themselves to fight as the community aligns itself with any new system. All we need is better groundwork from the actual game, and the community will do the rest.
    BertanK: Makes sense. When did you come to the realization that the old CW system was flawed? Could you see that from the start or have you realized it more recently?
    Desu: I'm sure quite a few at the time could see the flaws, as that system didn't allow Dalmati to win despite winning every CW. Nobody else took action, and it didn't affect me at the time, so I didn't move to fix it till later either.
    BertanK: I see, so now that you are in Stalins Martians, who are now in the same position as Dalmati, you wanted to take action to improve the system.
    Desu: Indeed. And if somebody had put the effort into fixing the flawed system before, I would have supported them. I just had no reason to get up and do it myself till later.
    BertanK: Moving on, the next update of min 50CP and max 100CP that can be earned from a cw. Do you think this improved the problem? Are the 50/100CP too less/much?
    Desu: No, it's a good amount to settle on. However, we should probably divide the CP earned and the competence change rates. Because as of now, the 50 minimum makes it so clans (Stalins Martians specifically) gain 0.05 competence or lose it every CW. The earned CP at 50 minimum is fine for the season ranking, but this does kinda mess with the overall leaderboards.
    BertanK: Yes, so you want to separate the competence and CP earned. The last update on the cw's is the x2 SP earned. I think we can both agree that this was a good idea, and the idea is clear enough. Therefore, I'll just move on to the last questions about your initial suggestion, which are not addressed in the thread.
    Desu: Alright.
    BertanK: If you want to change to a percentage system, what would happen if two clans had the same percentage? Would it be tied? Would the winner be determined by who played more CW's, or perhaps who earned the most CP/competence? Have you given a thought to that?
    Desu: The more CW's the more precise the placements are, so this is unlikely to happen at 30+ CW's, but if each clan stopped at 20 with the same percentage, you could just look at the records. Just determine who is higher by which clan beat the other more. So if "Cln A" has a 80% win rate for the season, and "Cln B" has the same 80%, and both played the required minimum games, then you can just look at the records between the two. If Cln B has more wins over Cln A, put them ahead.
    BertanK: Unlikely, but it might happen. That seems like a good solution. Thank you for your time and for the interview! You can now go back to watching your glorious anime.
    Desu: I will.



    'Ask the Player' Section
    Last week, there was only one question, so we need everyone to think of a question. We want to continue the tradition

    This weeks 'Ask the Player' is Tik-Tok, so keep the questions coming!





    Dbacks: and the x2 sp isn't that important as SM never needed to be motivated to play cws

    Before leaving you off, Christmas and 2014 are just around the corner so, I would like to wish a merry christmas and a happy new year to all of you!



    And, don't worry guys, Santa is on his way!






    Hope to see you all in our next articles!
    BertanK
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    22.12.2013 - 13:50
    Nice one! Don't worry guys santa is on his way 5/5. Little too much to drink eh santa?
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    It's not the end.

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    22.12.2013 - 14:19
    AlexMeza
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    Finally another one. I was expecting this :3
    However that CW update is kinda old, saw it long time ago.
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    23.12.2013 - 01:31
    I have a Q for Tik-Tok - Since you made WWI and WWII will there ever be WWIII?
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    We are not the same - I am a Martian.
    We are not the same - I am a... divided constellation?


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    23.12.2013 - 06:06
    Tik-tok, im not sure who you are but apparently you are a goop map maker. What is your best creation?
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    23.12.2013 - 11:08
    AlexMeza
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    I got a question for Tik..
    Why do you think Atheism is not about not believing in gods? That makes no sense ._.
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    26.12.2013 - 08:16
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    28.12.2013 - 22:21
    Incredible Article. Great read I'm impressed. My apologies for the late post.
    Tik, are you a free thinker and where do you get your ideals from? You're a very interesting person.
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    29.12.2013 - 00:06
    Nice article.

    Question for Tik-Tok:
    So in the Wizard of Oz, Tik-Tok is Dorothy's protector and friend. How do you reconcile being a friend of Dorothy with your traditionalistic ethos and values? I understand if you're uncomfortable discussing this topic.
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    31.12.2013 - 11:25
    Awesome Article bertank !
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    Believe you can and you're halfway there
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