2xSP NON removal

Okay, you wanted to hear (read) opposite 'arguments', I will try to bring some from our side (players who dont support 2xSP removal from CWs).
But, it wont include only opinions about 2xSP, I will also touch spheres that are connected to it (example: Clan warring of low ranks)
If you dont want to read all the things, you have it sorted by titles and numbers that belong to those titles.
Yes, it is a little longer cuz I am ill and I have to stay at home so I am bored too and I will have some fun with this.

Titles
1. Why against 2xSP removal (contra on clovis1122's arguments for 2xSP removal)
2. About Mauzer Panteri
3. Low rank Clan wars + my unused suggestion

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1. Why against 2xSP removal

Firstly, I will touch those clovis's (or clovis'es, I am not sure anymore xa) arguments from his thread for 2xSP removal which you can check in original on this link below ----------------------
http://hr.atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=16711&topicsearch=&page=1
and one same ones Meester relied in his last thread which you can read on this link below ----------------------------
http://hr.atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=19167&topicsearch=&page=1

So, lets start part by part:
parts from clovis's ('es) thread will be marked with dot (•) and mine contra on that will be marked with (-)

• from clovis1122's thread


- contra
This is only 1 clan war, not average number of won SP in Clan wars. I can compare it with RP (or any other map), where players sometimes reach even 10k SP in one game, but that is not representative number, neither average and this will be more clear after you take a look in statistics below.


• from clovis1122's thread


- contra
Is contra even needed on this kind of argument? I dont know any clan that doesnt care about losing, just about earning SP points. Just not true.
We have ONLY 10 really competitive clans and 10 which comes to play by time. We have 0 clans whose leaders made a secret deal they will play CWs only for 'farming' SP

• from clovis1122's thread


- contra
I have to ask clovis several questions about pointing this argument.. How the hell he is calculating quality of CWs ?? Is there any CwQualityMeter? Or it is invented just in Domenican Republic? (dont get this too personal, pls, I love your country)
Whatsmore, if quality CWs can be played only by Dalmati, Illyria and MK, than bring Dalmati back and have 2 CWs per month, I will be 1st that will abstain from CWs. More CWs include more players with different kind of skills and it is even sexier thing this season than ever before IMO.

• from clovis1122's thread


- contra
Firstly, current active players are familiar with all newest things that are implemented in AW gaming (as new TB system, etc..).
And things they learnt and skills they gained are not like soap that they will just disappear. Whatsmore, random 3v3 games are present in pretty same percentage than before 5. Also, I noticed (I have to mention those clans) my clan, Cosa Nostra, Shadow Aces and Singularity are often having inter-clan trainings (1v1,2v2,3v3).
For conclusion of this hint, I will add Khal's comment in Meester's thread (with Screenshot)


• from clovis1122's thread


- contra
No, just no. I dont know any player who wants to play CW becuase of SP multiper. It is just good thing after a good cw to see you got some bonus for your play for your clan and helping in gaining a win (or loss) to your clan. There is no single player who participates CWs only because of SP. This is silly, but yes, seems like pointing more dots means you have more arguments

• from clovis1122's thread


- contra
I didnt notice that growing of other maps like Ancient, on the contrary, this season there were 2 of max 3 of them. And if certain clan got good squad for Ancient map (as Shadow Aces) and if someone wants to try that kind of CW (as Mortal Kombat did), why not? I dont see any wedded endeavor to earn more SP, I see just 2 clans want to do something different in CW world. And those things are pretty rare.


* Last of arguments of those who are FOR 2xSP removal is that low ranks are not even participating CWs as it was expected.
------------------ This will be explained in my last title (3) about Low rank Clan wars and my abandoned idea.

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2. About Mauzer Panteri
I noticed many of you are pointing on Clan wars of Mauzer Panteri as player who gets ('farms') most from 2xSP.
Whatsmore, those pointings are only at his games that ended with high SP, but that cannot be representative.
If you want to make a representative pattern, you have to include average. There are 2 ways:
- Average between 5 games with most SP and 5 games with lowest SP (I said 5 for example, it can be any number)
- Average of all games (if you have nerves to calculate that as I had xd)

Here is the number of Mauzer's highest, lowest, average of all earned SP from Clan war games THIS season:



Number of CWs played this season: 77
Total amount of collected SP this season: 48448
Highest earned SP from 1 CW this season: 3365
Lowest earned SP from 1 CW this season: 45
Average of all earned SP this season: 629,2

- This is explanation why not to point only on those big amounts of SP from certain game. You can clearly see that average of earned SP from CWs is pretty far away from MAX earned SP from 1 CW. And you cannot use that 1 CW with max SP as your argument. Also, total amount of collected SP cannot be used as argument because it depends on how much active player is in Clan warring, and that is positive thing (if he is more active, ofc)
I think that average of 629,2 SP per CW (NOTICE: take in mind this is only from Mauzer, one of best players and one of most active CW players) is not that extremely giantly highly abnormaly 'farmed' number of SP. Try to imagine now average of other players ............

IF NEEDED, I AM AT YOUR DISPOSAL TO DO AVERAGE FOR EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IF YOU NEED MORE PROOFS FOR THIS.

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3. Low rank Clan wars + my unused suggestion

I agree low ranks are not bringed in CWs as it was thought. Problem is not 2xSP multiper, WE are the problem.
Clan leaders/officer who are taking care only about stronger squad for CWs.
Only thing that is problem is there are lower number of low ranks in strong and competitive clans and nobody takes a care about that, its easier to remove 2xSP than think about maybe we are the reason ?!
I remember I was accepted in evoL as rank 5 or 6 when I didnt know what is TB, what is Clan War, what is Elo, what is Premium, what is 2xSP. I know only to wallfuck fucking wall.


We, higher ranks need to introduce lower ranks step by step into competitive games primarily, 3v3's, trainings than CLAN WARS. They wont find by themselves about 2xSP

And last, I will short it cuz I am going to watch Barcelona-BAYERN, about my suggestion:
I suggested potentially good idea about CLAN WARS FOR LOW RANKS, which was abused by GuyFromTheNetherlands so I removed it.
Opening some kind of low rank Clan War room or something, separated from main one, that will be managed and helped by us, higher ranks, as their mentors and leaders.
Each clan would recruit several lower ranks 4-7 and train them for Lower rank Clan wars (cause >8 got pretty all needed upgrades for including in higher clan war scene).
Or maybe make 2 different clan rankings. One for Main (higher) CWs, one for Lower CWs.
It should give importance feeling to the lower ranks, make more competitive players for future and ensure crazy active future CW seasons.

If you want to know this suggestion with all the details, please quote me or PR me, I will explain you after match ends.


Ty, Croat

Support, so i hate Panteri anyways

My one and only question is: why would me and you (high ranks) need the x2 SP for? Does it make you happier somehow? Idk, I just find it to be a useless "prize" for playing cws

Maybe for low ranks it has a meaning but not really for us.

2xSP is needed to motivate noobs to play cws and become competetive players.

Without that, noobs will keep playing rp. and other farm scenarios, they will stay bad players ( like el general ).

Написано RaulPB, 06.05.2015 at 16:27

My one and only question is: why would me and you (high ranks) need the x2 SP for? Does it make you happier somehow? Idk, I just find it to be a useless "prize" for playing cws

Why not?

Yes, it makes me happier especially after cw in which I brought much effort for win.
And some kind of an award should be there (as 2xSP is now) for all those who are participating and fighting for their squad. It is not individual game and it is not random 3v3 game.
You are loyal to one clan, trying your best to improve it on rankings and that should be awarded. I still cannot see why certain players are sooooooooooooo much against that?

Написано Croat, 06.05.2015 at 16:33

Well, idk know about you but to me the sp is basically useless. I don't feel rewarded for earning some more sp... why do you give sp that much value? I'm not with or against, I'm being objective. SP doesn't offer me anything. It only offers something to low ranks which need the SP for their upgrades, that's all. I proposed a way for them to still get their x2 SP bonus but I think we should find something else for higher ranks which don't care about sp.

I think motivation must come from getting a reward that can only be won by playing Clan wars ...not SP which you can win by playing anything.

Medals? Trophies? ...collectibles xD GIVE US COLLECTIBLE SHIT!!!

I kinda dislike the low rank clan room, there is already a divide between high and low ranks, no need to encourage that divide

Написано Mauzer Panteri, 06.05.2015 at 16:31

2xSP is needed to motivate noobs to play cws and become competetive players.

Without that, noobs will keep playing rp. and other farm scenarios, they will stay bad players ( like el general ).

Longest post maizer has ever made. I have to agree

Написано Croat, 06.05.2015 at 14:23

I am reading this, I've done reading, but please know theses two useful pierces of information...

1) My argument and Meester's argument is different. So is our argument and International's one. I though I let this clear in the other post. When you talk about me, you are just talking about me. This doesn't makes Meester or International points more or less true.

2) The test was wrote half year ago. I believe in those 6 months two season already happened. Please don't get me wrong if I even reply using the situation that was being lived back at that time, since the points and arguments you're using are also from 6 months back.

Actually.. forget it, better reply to Meester's and International points since my arguments are currently outdated.

Btw, you might want to ask those who support you to upvote this thread... for avoid the situation we had when the blitz nerf. Show yourself strong, and your proposal as a popular choice.

Написано Mauzer Panteri, 06.05.2015 at 16:31

2xSP is needed to motivate noobs to play cws and become competetive players.

Without that, noobs will keep playing rp. and other farm scenarios, they will stay bad players ( like el general ).

...how many times do I need to refute this argument for people to stop making it?

In any case, Croat, you only addressed Clovis' arguments. Meester and I have quite different arguments for the removal of this bonus.

Написано International, 07.05.2015 at 04:10

Написано Mauzer Panteri, 06.05.2015 at 16:31

2xSP is needed to motivate noobs to play cws and become competetive players.

Without that, noobs will keep playing rp. and other farm scenarios, they will stay bad players ( like el general ).

...how many times do I need to refute this argument for people to stop making it?

In any case, Croat, you only addressed Clovis' arguments. Meester and I have quite different arguments for the removal of this bonus.

I didnt go for any comment in that discussion, I commented on things that are in main post

Keep 2xSP multiplier for CW games. This is the only effective mechanism to bring some competitivity argument into the SP retribution logic.

Написано Columna Durruti, 07.05.2015 at 09:01

This is the only effective mechanism

No its not ...can it be even proven that 2xSP is even the cause of increase of clan wars or did it come naturally with more competitive players etc.
Competence being replaced by ELO and before that increasing the CW limit are way bigger factors for the rise of clan wars in my opinion.

SP would never be a motive for me to play clan wars ...if there were trophies for CW's won or even played ...or at best seasonal trophies for every clan member that played cw's when the clan achieved a certain place, that would be a damn motivation.

Написано Goblin, 07.05.2015 at 09:16

Написано Columna Durruti, 07.05.2015 at 09:01

This is the only effective mechanism

No its not ...can it be even proven that 2xSP is even the cause of increase of clan wars or did it come naturally with more competitive players etc.

Agree, I dont play much cw's bcs i get alot of sp because i always win my cws + I dont wanna rank up bcs im to noob for rank 10 ;_;
And I even lost PL some cws because I left before end turn without realising plato was capped 2 turns ago so actually when I capped someone for 2 turns and plato got capped by him I left to avoid the SP.

2xSP harmed me so much ;_; xaxax trollololol. Nah I agree with croat, stop fuking with 2xSP somepeople care about ranks (opi etc)

Написано Goblin, 07.05.2015 at 09:16

Написано Columna Durruti, 07.05.2015 at 09:01

This is the only effective mechanism

No its not ...can it be even proven that 2xSP is even the cause of increase of clan wars or did it come naturally with more competitive players etc.
Competence being replaced by ELO and before that increasing the CW limit are way bigger factors for the rise of clan wars in my opinion.

SP would never be a motive for me to play clan wars ...if there were trophies for CW's won or even played ...or at best seasonal trophies for every clan member that played cw's when the clan achieved a certain place, that would be a damn motivation.

You are right on what you are saying.
You just missed the point of my comment: I just said that 2x multiplier for CW is only mechanism we have for the moment that brings COMPETITIVE ELEMENTS INTO SP SYSTEM. Not of increasing competitivity or CWs or CLN presence (which is your argument).

Написано Waffel, 07.05.2015 at 09:22

Nah I agree with croat, stop fuking with 2xSP somepeople care about ranks (opi etc)

So you admit this is only about SP and getting ranks ...and nothing more.
Let that be put into record ...now remove the obviously unfair system that gives "elits" SP while low ranks and others will never get their share of the cake.

And give trophies for CW's played ...had to be huge number - would be great cuz people wouldn't leave lost CW's to make their profiles look good (cunts) - and waffel would finally eventually win a trophy.

Написано Goblin, 07.05.2015 at 09:28

...now remove the obviously unfair system that gives "elits" SP while low ranks and others will never get their share of the cake.

Actually:
cake = RP, UN, WG, scenarios, etc.
cupcake = CW

Let this cupcake be as delicious as possible! Right?

Написано Goblin, 07.05.2015 at 09:28

Написано Waffel, 07.05.2015 at 09:22

Nah I agree with croat, stop fuking with 2xSP somepeople care about ranks (opi etc)

So you admit this is only about SP and getting ranks ...and nothing more.
Let that be put into record ...now remove the obviously unfair system that gives "elits" SP while low ranks and others will never get their share of the cake.

And give trophies for CW's played ...had to be huge number - would be great cuz people wouldn't leave lost CW's to make their profiles look good (cunts) - and waffel would finally eventually win a trophy.

How would I get my trophy? I never cw ;_;.

And what u mean with elits sp?

Написано Columna Durruti, 07.05.2015 at 09:32

Actually:
cake = RP, UN, WG, scenarios, etc.
cupcake = CW

Let this cupcake be as delicious as possible! Right?

Isn't RP on 50% SP ...and isn't it true that you have to play a damn scenario or RP for hours and hours to win good SP.

Lets not mix apples and cakes.

Написано Goblin, 07.05.2015 at 09:36

Написано Columna Durruti, 07.05.2015 at 09:32

Actually:
cake = RP, UN, WG, scenarios, etc.
cupcake = CW

Let this cupcake be as delicious as possible! Right?

Isn't RP on 50% SP ...and isn't it true that you have to play a damn scenario or RP for hours and hours to win good SP.

Lets not mix apples and cakes.

Unless it's an apple cake.
Look a stats. Mauzer, on average gains 500 SP per CW game. Is this 2 much? Definitely not if we compare it to the SP retribution (even nerfed) from RP, UN and some other scenarios (not all).

Написано Columna Durruti, 07.05.2015 at 09:39

Unless it's an apple cake.
Look a stats. Mauzer, on average gains 500 SP per CW game. Is this 2 much? Definitely not if we compare it to the SP retribution (even nerfed) from RP, UN and some other scenarios (not all).

Mauzer and any other player is free to play RP, scenarios or anything they want and they will probably win more SP then guys who actually play them.
I know ...i played a scenario one time, killed everything, had most SP in the game ...still didn't win grotesque amount,
I would have won SP quicker by wining 1v1 or CW.

Point ...apples are available to everyone.
But promising 2xSP, 3xSP, 10xSP to a low rank, who wont even have a real chance at wining it is like promising me a 1000 dollars if i flight a plane to Germany.

Написано Goblin, 07.05.2015 at 09:28

And give trophies for CW's played

I think that this is a good idea. In addition, I think we could add trophies for when someone wins a certain amount of CWs playing as a certain country. For example, if you win 20 CWs as Turkey and you get a "Master of Turkey" trophy.

Response to OP:
I really don't see why SP would matter to high ranks. So, in my opinion, people shouldn't be concerned that high ranks are getting bonus SP for playing competitive games because the only thing they receive from the bonus SP is a higher rank which really doesn't matter once you are rank 10+. For this reason, the bonus SP is only an incentive for low ranks to play CWs, not high ranks, and I see no reason to take it away and give low ranks one less reason to play competitively.

Написано Columna Durruti, 07.05.2015 at 09:39

Написано Goblin, 07.05.2015 at 09:36

Написано Columna Durruti, 07.05.2015 at 09:32

Actually:
cake = RP, UN, WG, scenarios, etc.
cupcake = CW

Let this cupcake be as delicious as possible! Right?

Isn't RP on 50% SP ...and isn't it true that you have to play a damn scenario or RP for hours and hours to win good SP.

Lets not mix apples and cakes.

Unless it's an apple cake.
Look a stats. Mauzer, on average gains 500 SP per CW game. Is this 2 much? Definitely not if we compare it to the SP retribution (even nerfed) from RP, UN and some other scenarios (not all).

As an RP player, that is clearly absurd. Check out my games list. It's almost entirely RP games. I rarely play anything else. Even though nearly all my games are RP, exactly zero of the three games in the last 150 days that got me over 1,000 SP were RP games. There's one free-for-all Europe 3k$ game, one custom map and one custom scenario. Not to mention that the average successful RP is 2~3 hours long, while I rarely see Clan Wars over an hour.

PLAY MORE SHIT ON FORUMS LESS !

Написано Columna Durruti, 07.05.2015 at 09:25

Написано Goblin, 07.05.2015 at 09:16

Написано Columna Durruti, 07.05.2015 at 09:01

This is the only effective mechanism

No its not ...can it be even proven that 2xSP is even the cause of increase of clan wars or did it come naturally with more competitive players etc.
Competence being replaced by ELO and before that increasing the CW limit are way bigger factors for the rise of clan wars in my opinion.

SP would never be a motive for me to play clan wars ...if there were trophies for CW's won or even played ...or at best seasonal trophies for every clan member that played cw's when the clan achieved a certain place, that would be a damn motivation.

You are right on what you are saying.
You just missed the point of my comment: I just said that 2x multiplier for CW is only mechanism we have for the moment that brings COMPETITIVE ELEMENTS INTO SP SYSTEM. Not of increasing competitivity or CWs or CLN presence (which is your argument).

Is Clan Wars the core of this game?
The scores of scenario, RP, or default map free-for-all players disagree to that. I fail to see why a system of making SP gain, which provides concrete and actual benefits to gameplay (upgrades) , dependent on a mode of gameplay not everyone likes is beneficial. Introducing competitive elements into SP is absurd. SP gain should be dependent on how much fighting you to in this game, regardless of how that fighting came to be.

Ingternational, an opinion of a hard rp player have no point in this kind of threads, seriosly.