Remove 2x SP from Clan War.

Idgf about the sp won in CW, even if it was brought down to zero I'd still play some as i'm doing lately...

You can't compare RP SP vs CW SP...or the skill needed to get this SP

Написано KUNG PAO, 01.12.2014 at 09:49

You can't compare RP SP vs CW SP...or the skill needed to get this SP

A skilled player can earn a heck of a lot more SP in RP than an unskilled player can.
A skilled player can earn a heck of a lot more SP in CW than an unskilled player can.

Where, exactly, is the difference?

Also, why can't we compare RP SP with CW SP? They add up to the same total, after all.

Remove the 2x SP ffs, Clovis makes some excellent points on this

Besides, you dont HAVE to get 2x SP, hell, CWs might become the New RP if this policy continues

Pretty sure that one day on the Clan War page we will have 2 pages full of these farm games

I would support a reduction to 1.5 as goblin suggested. But the 2X sp for cws has existed for quite some time, and there hasnt been any known instances of sp farming in cws. And there hasnt exactly been any significant increase in the number of cws played either so sp does't seem to be a motivating factor for people to play cws. I dont know of a single clan who plays cws for sp. A lot of clovis' points are merely speculative. In fact he is probably giving the sp hungry masses ideas with this thread.

Also regarding the screenshot i was obviously joking. That was a cw which ended up with an east vs west battle which stretched out for over 40 turns taking almost 3 hours of my time, and since it was a cw i took it seriously and played my ass off over that time. 4800 sp after such a game is nothing outrageous.

How about we wait for these abuses our community caretaker clovis is so worried about to actually occur before we go interfering with one of the only features that might attract a new player to competitive play.

Написано Permamuted, 02.12.2014 at 01:24

I would support a reduction to 1.5 as goblin suggested. But the 2X sp for cws has existed for quite some time, and there hasnt been any known instances of sp farming in cws. And there hasnt exactly been any significant increase in the number of cws played either so sp does't seem to be a motivating factor for people to play cws. I dont know of a single clan who plays cws for sp. A lot of clovis' points are merely speculative. In fact he is probably giving the sp hungry masses ideas with this thread. [...] How about we wait for these abuses our community caretaker clovis is so worried about to actually occur before we go interfering with one of the only features that might attract a new player to competitive play.

It is my strong belief that SP should not attract players to any given style of game. Players should play what is fun for them, not what gives the most SP. If it takes SP incentives to get new players to "competitive play," then new players shouldn't go to "competitive play."

Also if, as you claim, nobody plays Clan War for SP, then why do you want to hang on to this bonus? If nobody plays it for SP, then nobody should mind if the x2 bonus is removed, yes?

I'd advocate for zero or some symbolic SP bonus if it was up to me (it's not), but x1.5 seems to have more support, so I'm going to help out with that.

Написано International, 02.12.2014 at 01:36

It is my strong belief that SP should not attract players to any given style of game. Players should play what is fun for them, not what gives the most SP. If it takes SP incentives to get new players to "competitive play," then new players shouldn't go to "competitive play."

Also if, as you claim, nobody plays Clan War for SP, then why do you want to hang on to this bonus? If nobody plays it for SP, then nobody should mind if the x2 bonus is removed, yes?

I'd advocate for zero or some symbolic SP bonus if it was up to me (it's not), but x1.5 seems to have more support, so I'm going to help out with that.

I would agree but this is an idealistic wish not a realistic one, when you're a low rank you see all these upgrades, some of which you really want to make your favourite strats more powerful. and you will seek ways to gain sp fast, not necessarily by farming, but just maps/settings that are more likely to reward large amounts.

It's true i doubt many of the current cw'ers would be that upset if the sp bonus was removed. However currently it is the only feature that might encourage new players to hop into a clan and play a clan war. Sure there are lots of better ways to encourage new players to play competitively, however Ivan and amok are currently too busy translating the game to html5 to work on this. So for now just leave the sp multiplier alone. It isn't doing any harm.

Написано Permamuted, 02.12.2014 at 01:46

I would agree but this is an idealistic wish not a realistic one, when you're a low rank you see all these upgrades, some of which you really want to make your favourite strats more powerful. and you will seek ways to gain sp fast, not necessarily by farming, but just maps/settings that are more likely to reward large amounts.

It's true i doubt many of the current cw'ers would be that upset if the sp bonus was removed. However currently it is the only feature that might encourage new players to hop into a clan and play a clan war. Sure there are lots of better ways to encourage new players to play competitively, however Ivan and amok are currently too busy translating the game to html5 to work on this. So for now just leave the sp multiplier alone. It isn't doing any harm.

My point is, why does new players need to be "encouraged" to join a clan and play clan wars? If new players don't like to play competitive, then let them just not play competitive.

If I find that clans are horrid organizations and that clan wars are more boring than free-for-all games (which I, by the way, do), then I shouldn't be penalized (relative to others) for these preferences. I should be able to make SP according to my skill, not according to what games I play.
As I said, if new players don't play clan wars without SP bonus, then they shouldn't play clan wars.

SP multiplier is indeed doing harm. It's disadvantaging those players that don't play clan wars relative to the players that do play clan wars.

Laissez-faire. Let the players do what they want to do, and stop rewarding/penalizing certain choices.

On an unrelated side note, I fully agree with your point about maps/settings. The admins really should introduce SP penalties for high starting cash.

Написано Permamuted, 02.12.2014 at 01:24

But the 2X sp for cws has existed for quite some time, and there hasnt been any known instances of sp farming in cws. And there hasnt exactly been any significant increase in the number of cws played either so sp does't seem to be a motivating factor for people to play cws. I dont know of a single clan who plays cws for sp. A lot of clovis' points are merely speculative. In fact he is probably giving the sp hungry masses ideas with this thread.

> RP gets nerfed

"The amount of clans participating in this season has grown. Maybe we see old clans being revived? New clans becoming active?" ~MOU about the last season. Link: http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=15552

You are in illyria. If I remember right illyria is (just an hypotesis, not my personal opinion) a clan accused of playing CW's against the denominated "Farming clans". And also, very few of those cw's against "farming clans" were also with upgrades disabled. And of course, all of them were with overrank.

Why do you think a clan would ever accept playing with such disastrous settings? Because they DONT WANT TO WIN THE SEASON. They AIM TO LOSE.

1. Is not courage, is suicide.
2. If they wanted to learn they would try playing 3vs3 first, like old clans used to do in the 10-games CW.
3. They are not dumb for not regonize the obvious difference between upgrade, rank and skills.


I've tell you from long ago my feel about my clanmates stopping playing 3v3's for CW (hence why I made a guide for them, and after that revealed to public). And I am very sure this happen in other clans as well.

Try comparing the amount of CW's that you have played in the last week with the amount of 3vs3. Then compare it with Skenderbeu. The amount of 3vs3 should be higher than the amount of cw's (Since after all, the practice makes the master) but you will notice this barely happen today.

Написано Skanderbeg, 01.12.2014 at 07:04

He played 25 turns... 2500 : 25 = 100 > he earned 100 sp every turn[50 if you remove 2x]. 2x sp is ok in CW.
Problem is 2x sp in cw is ALSO used in Ancient cw, rp cw, or any other map.
It should be updated, 2x sp to cw ONLY in 3v3 eu+

This^

Написано JUGERS2, 02.12.2014 at 04:02

Написано Skanderbeg, 01.12.2014 at 07:04

He played 25 turns... 2500 : 25 = 100 > he earned 100 sp every turn[50 if you remove 2x]. 2x sp is ok in CW.
Problem is 2x sp in cw is ALSO used in Ancient cw, rp cw, or any other map.
It should be updated, 2x sp to cw ONLY in 3v3 eu+

This^

Why keep the 2x SP bonus at all?
Why reward Clan War 3v3s any more than ordinary 3v3s?

Написано International, 02.12.2014 at 04:04

Написано JUGERS2, 02.12.2014 at 04:02

Написано Skanderbeg, 01.12.2014 at 07:04

He played 25 turns... 2500 : 25 = 100 > he earned 100 sp every turn[50 if you remove 2x]. 2x sp is ok in CW.
Problem is 2x sp in cw is ALSO used in Ancient cw, rp cw, or any other map.
It should be updated, 2x sp to cw ONLY in 3v3 eu+

This^

Why keep the 2x SP bonus at all?
Why reward Clan War 3v3s any more than ordinary 3v3s?

Because there is a special room named clan wars....when there is a special room for somthing this something has something special too...logic...

Написано JUGERS2, 02.12.2014 at 04:06

Because there is a special room named clan wars....when there is a special room for somthing this something has something special too...logic...

Okay. There's also a special room called "Beginners." Are you suggesting that we should reward Beginner room games with double SP?
Also, please demonstrate satisfactory evidence to the effect that being on a special room justifies doubling the SP gain of a game.

Написано International, 02.12.2014 at 04:08

Написано JUGERS2, 02.12.2014 at 04:06

Because there is a special room named clan wars....when there is a special room for somthing this something has something special too...logic...

Okay. There's also a special room called "Beginners." Are you suggesting that we should reward Beginner room games with double SP?
Also, please demonstrate satisfactory evidence to the effect that being on a special room justifies doubling the SP gain of a game.

Begginers have already something special...are from r4 and down...

Написано JUGERS2, 02.12.2014 at 04:09

Begginers have already something special...are from r4 and down...

Alright. The Clan Wars room has something special. It's for Clan Wars (duh?). Therefore, no need to make it any more special by doubling SP.

Написано International, 02.12.2014 at 04:10

Написано JUGERS2, 02.12.2014 at 04:09

Begginers have already something special...are from r4 and down...

Alright. The Clan Wars room has something special. It's for Clan Wars (duh?). Therefore, no need to make it any more special by doubling SP.

When it is for clan wars then u cant compare it like u did with simple 3v3....

Btw clovis delete those spam posts....

Who the fuck cares!? Like wtf? What is your exact point if I may ask? Because you jump from point to really the opposite of your own points to deffend your statement?
What laochra said was perfectly fine, and logical. Don't use that SS of laochra as ''evidence'' every human being with a capable functioning brain can see he is obviously just joking around with the SP farm thing.
Nobody cw's for SP. If they want SP they go for scenarios. You say why low ranks started to cw often? because you guys keep calling them RP noobs and scenario noobs and they should start playing more competitive games...
don't blame them again

Don't support this topic, i havent seen much evidence of sp farming on cws, on the other side, it has helped increasing the amount of clans cwing, last cw season was the most active ever, and everytime its gets more competitive, sp is meaningless to high ranks once they have all upgrades, cws are ment to be an organized team game where ppl give theyre best to win the game, so i dont see the problem of rewarding the winning players with x2 sp.
also the faster ppl get the sp faster they buy the upgrades and became stronger, the more ppl are stronger more competitive is the season, and we reduce this problem with unfair ranks to cw, so leave it as it is

Написано JUGERS2, 02.12.2014 at 04:02

Написано Skanderbeg, 01.12.2014 at 07:04

He played 25 turns... 2500 : 25 = 100 > he earned 100 sp every turn[50 if you remove 2x]. 2x sp is ok in CW.
Problem is 2x sp in cw is ALSO used in Ancient cw, rp cw, or any other map.
It should be updated, 2x sp to cw ONLY in 3v3 eu+

This^

He didnt earned 100 SP per turn. He earned our SP too, by turn 20 he had over 300-400 SP and the pool was in 1976.

Написано JUGERS2, 02.12.2014 at 04:11

When it is for clan wars then u cant compare it like u did with simple 3v3....

Please enlighten this country bumpkin what amazing wizardry makes Clan Wars so much more SP-deserving than simple 3v3.

Написано Skanderbeg, 02.12.2014 at 05:46

I look at it this way:
CW players dont play maps and other games, so they make sp harder and slower,

If CW players don't play as many games, then that's their own fault. Less games, less SP. Kind of obvious, and Clan War SP should not be high to compensate.

Написано Skanderbeg, 02.12.2014 at 05:46

while RP and WG players earn 5000sp per day. So why not earning little sp in CW.

Didn't the -50% SP penalty fix the role-play SP problem? I haven't played anything bigger than the Netherlands in RP, so I don't actually know how much the top SP gain from role-play is. If this is still a problem, yeah. I agree. Cut the SP gain again. Cutting the SP gain for any high-SP games like the world map seems beneficial as well.
If RP and WG players earn so much SP, cut their SP gain again. Don't try to make up for it by boosting CW SP gain.

Написано Skanderbeg, 02.12.2014 at 05:46

Plus 2x is good to promote CW because it will change players focus from maps and scenarion to 3v3 & CW.

I fail to see why promoting Clan Wars are a good thing. Some people like scenarios better than clan war. Stop trying to arbitrarily incentivize people to play what you like.

Написано Skanderbeg, 02.12.2014 at 05:46

RP made noobs from newbies, while they could simply start clans, find members and fight cw.

Maybe because said newbies don't find clan wars fun? I certainly don't. Free-for-all is so much more fun to me than team games.
As I said in my previous post, laissez-faire. Let the players play what they like, and stop trying to incentivize/penalize certain games. All ways of earning SP should be roughly equal in difficulty.

Написано lOrd pOnteZ, 02.12.2014 at 04:19

Don't support this topic, i havent seen much evidence of sp farming on cws, on the other side, it has helped increasing the amount of clans cwing, last cw season was the most active ever, and everytime its gets more competitive,

That "helped increasing the amount of clans CWing" is a euphemism for "arbitrarily incentivized players to play CW which they wouldn't otherwise that played."

Laissez-faire. If people don't play CWs without the SP boost, there's probably a good reason for it. Stop throwing in arbitrary bonuses to incentivize people to play the games you like.

Написано Skanderbeg, 02.12.2014 at 05:46

sp is meaningless to high ranks once they have all upgrades, cws are ment to be an organized team game where ppl give theyre best to win the game, so i dont see the problem of rewarding the winning players with x2 sp.

SP is meaningless, so you won't mind if we cut that +100% boost, yes?
Also, there's a very big problem with awarding x2 SP. It's not very fair. If we don't like Clan Wars, we shouldn't be disadvantaged in SP gain simply because we don't play it. Isn't that the same reason why people cut role-play's SP gain?

Написано Skanderbeg, 02.12.2014 at 05:46

also the faster ppl get the sp faster they buy the upgrades and became stronger, the more ppl are stronger more competitive is the season, and we reduce this problem with unfair ranks to cw, so leave it as it is

Alright. If people earning SP faster is good, why limit the +100% boost to CW's? Why not open it to all games?

Написано International, 02.12.2014 at 04:26

Написано JUGERS2, 02.12.2014 at 04:11

When it is for clan wars then u cant compare it like u did with simple 3v3....

Please enlighten this country bumpkin what amazing wizardry makes Clan Wars so much more SP-deserving than simple 3v3.

because it is the only trully competitive part of this game.AW is the only game i know, where noobs have more "experience" (sp) than pro players with 5 times their games.Players playing 2 years of 3v3 and cws and noobs that play rp are same rank with 1/10th of the games and in 5 months.Ranks already lost all meaning.Also keep in mind that high ranks do not care about sp.For example i have abandon close 50 cws if not more, just so i dont get the sp, cause i wanted to remain rank 9.Laochra did the same.But guys who are rank 6 and 7, need the upgrades to compete, so its not fair for them to have to play scenarios and Rp with noobs, just so they can get their SP.
anyway x2 sp in cws is the least admins can do to promote cws, who are the only form of competitive play in aw.All other games are irelevant.only cws matter in this game.

Написано clovis1122, 02.12.2014 at 03:45

You are in illyria. If I remember right illyria is (just an hypotesis, not my personal opinion) a clan accused of playing CW's against the denominated "Farming clans". And also, very few of those cw's against "farming clans" were also with upgrades disabled. And of course, all of them were with overrank.

Why do you think a clan would ever accept playing with such disastrous settings? Because they DONT WANT TO WIN THE SEASON. They AIM TO LOSE.

1. Is not courage, is suicide.
2. If they wanted to learn they would try playing 3vs3 first, like old clans used to do in the 10-games CW.
3. They are not dumb for not regonize the obvious difference between upgrade, rank and skills.

acussed without evidence.that makes the accusations slandering clovis.no hypothesis there, just blatant lying.Illyria is playing all clans, strong and weak, because it enjoys cws.
Also you are very wrong.Playing Cws is the best training a clan can do.Normal 3v3s are irellevant and mediocre for training, as most people play for laughs there and make stupid risks and weird plays.You only see the best plays in Cws.In previous seasons when clans wasnt so active, or they were just scared, Mk and Illyria were cwing eachother every day multiple times.Then you wonder why Mk and Illyria are the best clans..
Also you are wrong about clans with not much experience also.MS were cwing Illyria all the time last season.That was the best training they could get.And they knew it cause they are smart.Look where zone and fer is right now.Same with shadow aces this season.They have improoved immensly by playing alot of cws and not being afraid to face Illyria almost every day.They gonna get rewarded for this, next season.

Why making bigg fuzz about this? Those big amount of sp's like mauzer and lao/eagle did, happens what? once or twice in 1 season?
Most of the CW's people dont get higher than 1k sp. I dont know why all of you are crying this bigg, especially the people who have never but never put one step in any single CW.
Like khal said her above, we dont play SP farming maps, we mostly play 3v3's so we don't get that much SP.
And thing is, you guys could also play scenario cw's? its not only for us (3v3 competitive players) its for every clan... Stop generalizising.

Give people some slack.

I keep having to address the same complaints over and over again, so here goes, a comprehensive guide to why Clan Wars' SP bonus should be removed, in a neat format.

1. "That +100% bonus is important to reward players."
Well, then. Clan Wars are giving you arbitrary boosts to your SP earnings. I believe we call that "SP-farming." I also seem to recall that this is precisely why we decided to cut RP's SP gain. Therefore, remove this bonus.

2. "No, I don't care about that bonus. It's not SP-farming."
Well, then. If that bonus is irrelevant to you, why do you even have this arbitrary and unfair bonus? Remove it.

3. "But x2 bonus encourages players to play more Clan Wars and get more into competitive gameplay."
Laissez-faire. Let the players play what they want. If players don't play CW or competitive games without the SP bonus, then it's probably because they don't like CW or competitive games, for whatever reason. If so, then why should players be encouraged to play games they don't like by being offered extra SP? This has no point, therefore remove this bonus.

4. "SP is meaningless once you buy all the upgrades. Why not award some extra to CW victors?"
SP is meaningless? Then see #2. Why not award some SP? Well, because it's unfair to us players who don't play CW. If you're saying that it's my own fault I don't play Clan Wars, see #3.

5. "Clan War players tend only to play a few games, earning little SP, so they need a SP boost to compensate."
I don't know if this is true, but even if it is, why does anyone need to be compensated for not playing games? I don't play games very often, so I don't earn very much SP. So should I be compensated for this? Absolutely not. Remove the bonus.

6 "Faster SP-gain allows for a more level playing field because it allows new players to purchase necessary upgrades faster."
Ridiculous. If faster SP-gain allows for a level playing field, then how come there's no bonus for normal games in the main lobby? If the purpose of this boost is to give SP to new players, then why give the bonus to Clan Wars, instead of in the Beginner lobby where the SP will be more effective?

7. "I haven't seen any evidence of players playing Clan Wars only for the SP."
See #2.

8. "Clan Wars are special. They should get more SP."
RP is also special. World games are also special. Duels are special. None of them currently gets, nor deserves, any SP boost. What's your point here?

9. "There's no reason to take the bonus out. Why not just keep it?"
See #4.

10. "The actual SP gain from this bonus is small enough to be just symbolic."
See #2, and also note that symbolic amount does not equal zero.

11. "Non-competitive players gain so much SP easily through RP and 50k world. Us competitive players should also gain that SP through Clan Wars."
If you witness another person stealing, would you follow suit, since it's unfair that he's stealing and you're not? Absolutely not. The correct response is to stop him from stealing. This is an issue that should be dealt by reducing SP gain of RP (already kind of done) and 50k world, not increasing the SP gain of Clan Wars.

In conclusion, this +100% SP bonus for Clan Wars are arbitrary, unfair, and laughably purposeless. I suggest we get rid of it.

If there are any new arguments against removing this bonus, I'll edit in that argument, and my rebuttal of it, here on this post.

Написано Skanderbeg, 02.12.2014 at 06:24

We have to promote good games, not bad games, but we shouldnt forbid players to create bad games, if they really want to, no one can stop them.
Promotion/advertising isnt forcing.
CWs are eu+, not much sp can be earned there because small map + ends fast.

See #10 of my comprehensive guide above.

Написано Skanderbeg, 02.12.2014 at 06:24

RP is 20 players, OP units, 500 turns and bunch of ally[beep].

Define "good game." Games have one purpose, and that is to entertain the participants and its spectators. See #3 of my comprehensive guide above. "Good game" essentially mean "games people have fun in."

Написано Skanderbeg, 02.12.2014 at 06:24

Problem is players are not directed to good games when they create accounts, they go 'on the line with less resistance': which means they dont want to learn and try 3v3 eu+ because its hard for them, while it is too easy to drag 20/10 tank in RP and rape others and earn 1000sp in 2 turns.
Therefore, we promote good games where you need to think and use tactics, because this is strategy game.
If you blindly move troops on the map and just write on chat to simulate 'diplomacy' then you will become used it, you wont feel comfortable in competitive games if you start one in the future and thus automaticly you wont be interested in it.

With all the semi-propaganda semi-advertisement you competitive players have been pulling in lobby chat and in the forums, I somehow doubt that it's even possible for a player to grow to rank 4~5 without knowing about and playing at least one competitive game(s).

Написано Waffel, 02.12.2014 at 06:43

Why making bigg fuzz about this? Those big amount of sp's like mauzer and lao/eagle did, happens what? once or twice in 1 season?
Most of the CW's people dont get higher than 1k sp. I dont know why all of you are crying this bigg, especially the people who have never but never put one step in any single CW.
Like khal said her above, we dont play SP farming maps, we mostly play 3v3's so we don't get that much SP.
And thing is, you guys could also play scenario cw's? its not only for us (3v3 competitive players) its for every clan... Stop generalizising.

Give people some slack.

See points #4 and #10 of my comprehensive guide at the end of page 2 in this thread.

Написано Khal.eesi, 02.12.2014 at 06:29

Написано International, 02.12.2014 at 04:26

Please enlighten this country bumpkin what amazing wizardry makes Clan Wars so much more SP-deserving than simple 3v3.

because it is the only trully competitive part of this game.AW is the only game i know, where noobs have more "experience" (sp) than pro players with 5 times their games.Players playing 2 years of 3v3 and cws and noobs that play rp are same rank with 1/10th of the games and in 5 months.Ranks already lost all meaning.Also keep in mind that high ranks do not care about sp.For example i have abandon close 50 cws if not more, just so i dont get the sp, cause i wanted to remain rank 9.Laochra did the same.But guys who are rank 6 and 7, need the upgrades to compete, so its not fair for them to have to play scenarios and Rp with noobs, just so they can get their SP.
anyway x2 sp in cws is the least admins can do to promote cws, who are the only form of competitive play in aw.All other games are irelevant.only cws matter in this game.

See points #2, 3, 6, and 8 of my comprehensive guide at the end of page 2 in this thread. Added #11, for your argument about "noobs that play rp."