Camping proposal

So i heard from nearly all leaders, and majority are ok with Top 4 tourney (best of 7) until a coded solution is agreed upon. The main objection from the leaders who didn't like the idea was that the 1st place clan plays all season for nothing, so here's the proposal to solve that:

If 1st place clan plays 7 games with all the other top 3 clans in last 6 weeks of season, they win the title without a playoff , as they proved they were at least playing games against top clans, so how could this be camping?

If they don't play 7 games with each of the other top 3 then the playoff will be a best of 7. (Note to first place clan, if teams are intentionally not playing you (reverse camping) let me know and offers to CW will be counted.)

This will be a 'test' and if coalitions think it (mostly) solves the camping issue, it can be proposed for next season as well.

No solution is perfect, but until we have a perfect solution, it's the easiest, fairest solution given all the differing opinions. /pr me if you have a seriously strong objection . ♥

Doesn't look bad

Why not have a Seasonal Trophy, and some sort of End-Of-Season Playfoffs/Championship? Everyone's happy then.

Написано Garde, 07.02.2020 at 19:31

Why not have a Seasonal Trophy, and some sort of End-Of-Season Playfoffs/Championship? Everyone's happy then.

That's what I said last season zzzz

Написано brianwl, 07.02.2020 at 19:08

So i heard from nearly all leaders, and majority are ok with Top 4 tourney (best of 7) until a coded solution is agreed upon.

In general, top 3 clans are usually the most active clans, independently of 'camping' case now. But many times 4th or 5h or etc. positioned coalitions are some small-period coalitions which have few wins from the season start and later they just go full inactive or they fail and its members go in another coalitions.
Just have that in mind

Написано brianwl, 07.02.2020 at 19:08

(Note to first place clan, if teams are intentionally not playing you (reverse camping) let me know and offers to CW will be counted.)

Yes, but not all coalitions have their best cwing team, or at least standard good team, online everytime.
For example: Doxa won't cw with, lets say 'Zodark' at this moment and I can wisely spam them to CW and offer a CW tens of times when they cannot play with anyone else than Zodark.
Peaky Blinders won't currently cw with Apoc or without one of our east players with everyone and in that occassions we can be offered for a cw by other coalitions tens of times too.
And same thing works for almost every coalition.

Going into every cw with any team is great during the first period of season, especially with newbies to competitive scene, but at the important times of season ending, of course no one will risk everything, but on the contrary, everyone will focus their targets to catch the 1st place.
By this I dont mean camping when 1st place is catched, of course you need to be wiser at the end of the season, but that doesn't mean you will sit on 1st place and avoid every possible cw, on the contrary, you will go into clan wars with your more decent team and keep your pride and fights to show who deserves that trophy.

There are much things that non rule or deal can affect on and such a things cannot be controlled that easily, based by looking just from one perception of view, neither from just another. And there is no possible pressuming line by which we can decide what was true, less true or not true at all.

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FINAL 4 TOURNAMENT - CROATS SUGGESTION

Generally said, there are many pros and against things abour final 4 tourney, but at the moment we don't have better solution and I would really agree with it.
Since this is just a temporary option, adding seasonal trophy + final 4 trophy would just mess up things for future.


In my opinion, if we are going to implement the final 4 tournament, then I don't like the idea if 1st placed coalition plays 7 matches with top 3 teams during the last days of season, that there is no tournament. Either we are going to implement it, either we are not.
+ I dont really think that at this moment 1 leading coalition will play or be possible to play 21 cw in last 5,6 days of season.

I would make the system of that Final 4 tournament similiar as it is in handball for example.

1st placed team during the season carries ---> 50 points to the final 4 tournament.
2nd placed team during the season carries half of 1st placed team --> 30 points to the final 4 tournament
3rd placed team during the season carries ----> 10 points to the final 4 tournament
4th placed team carries ----> 0 points to the final 4 tournament.

I think this is the most fair option, because 1st placed team keeps the advantage. 2nd placed team still has nice percentage of chances to get 1st place. Third team also has chance to get 2nd place easily and maybe in some rare, but real occassions, they can even catch 1st place. 4th placed team has very small chances to become 1st placed, but at least they can always try, you never know what is life bringing to you. If nothing,they can at least fight for 2nd or 3rd place trophy.

In Final 4 tournament, each win worth 10 points. All clans have 21 match, which is 210 possible points in total for each clan (of course 99,99% that clans will not achieve all of them).

What about coalitions which don't end their 21 matches?
Coalitions which don't end all their matches (7 matches with each of rest 3 clans) - WHO CARES, they will achieve less amount of points while active coalitions will keep playing the rest of their matches and climb on tournament rankings.
In really obvious distrubing of the tournament with inactivity, that coalition will automatically be marked as 4th placed coalition and will suck every trophy.

ALSO:
If coalitions have same amount of points at the end of tournament, then the winning coalition is the one which has a better score between those 2 coalitions.




I think it's pretty simply and should be interesting.


What are your thoughts about this, brian and rest of guys?

I would play with Zodark in 3n3 cuz in 2n2 it's a bit more 1n1 and I don't think he got the skills to beat lulu/mauz/laki/grom or u and if I help him too much I can lose east easily agaisnt a good east player.
I don't like your idea Croat I think first season elo clan should have 2 free wins first round agaisnt 4th, 2nd get 1 free win agaisnt 3rd and for the final first clan only get 1 free win.
Tournament would be best of 7.
Or we could do 2 trophies 1 for season elo 1 for final 4 tournament

Everyone's got problems with everyone's system. In my opinion, their all fine and either of them can be used as regulations will be made about that system anyway.

Написано Alois, 08.02.2020 at 03:27

Everyone's got problems with everyone's system. In my opinion, their all fine and either of them can be used as regulations will be made about that system anyway.

With croat's idea even if 4th tryhard they can won't be able to win imagine season elo got like 20elos between first and fourth it would be unfair.
If you guys want to reward activity first can have a small advantage but not that much

Написано Froyer, 08.02.2020 at 03:23

I would play with Zodark in 3n3 cuz in 2n2 it's a bit more 1n1 and I don't think he got the skills to beat lulu/mauz/laki/grom or u and if I help him too much I can lose east easily agaisnt a good east player.

Dude, I was symbolically making examples... Nothing against Zodark and his playing for real, neither about Apoc's.

Написано Froyer, 08.02.2020 at 03:23

I don't like your idea Croat I think first season elo clan should have 2 free wins first round agaisnt 4th, 2nd get 1 free win agaisnt 3rd and for the final first clan only get 1 free win.
Tournament would be best of 7.

But the concept of your idea is pretty similiar with mine.
I have given an advantage to 1st placed team with points (and to 2nd towards 3rd and to 3rd towards 4th), you've given it by wins. I would be fine with your suggestion too.

Написано Froyer, 08.02.2020 at 03:23

Or we could do 2 trophies 1 for season elo 1 for final 4 tournament

I don't like 2 trophies idea, as I said, because this final 4 tournament is just a temporary thing until a coded solution is agreed. I don't like giving trophies to clans for something temporary.

Написано Froyer, 08.02.2020 at 03:34

With croat's idea even if 4th tryhard they can won't be able to win imagine season elo got like 20elos between first and fourth it would be unfair.
If you guys want to reward activity first can have a small advantage but not that much

I was just putting numbers on first. Of course we can make a different deal of points which are carried from season into tournament. We are here to discuss and decide.

Btw bro, just put some dots and commas, my brain burned until I got first sentence

Написано Croat, 08.02.2020 at 03:40

Написано Froyer, 08.02.2020 at 03:34

With croat's idea even if 4th tryhard they can won't be able to win imagine season elo got like 20elos between first and fourth it would be unfair.
If you guys want to reward activity first can have a small advantage but not that much

I was just putting numbers on first. Of course we can make a different deal of points which are carried from season into tournament. We are here to discuss and decide.

Btw bro, just put some dots and commas, my brain burned until I got first sentence

We will have to play 21 games too, it's a lot lol Doxa got only 15 cws played right now.
With my idea first can win the tournament in 5 games if they rape and if it's close first and second will have to play max 11/12 games to win the tournament

Написано Garde, 07.02.2020 at 19:31

Why not have a Seasonal Trophy, and some sort of End-Of-Season Playfoffs/Championship? Everyone's happy then.

Cuz one trophy is fake and for losers.

Написано Croat, 08.02.2020 at 03:12

1st placed team during the season carries ---> 50 points to the final 4 tournament.
2nd placed team during the season carries half of 1st placed team --> 30 points to the final 4 tournament
3rd placed team during the season carries ----> 10 points to the final 4 tournament
4th placed team carries ----> 0 points to the final 4 tournament.

Dude... Why to make something simple when croat can overcomplicate everything.

Написано Mauzer Panteri, 08.02.2020 at 04:35

Dude... Why to make something simple when croat can overcomplicate everything.

Xd

I guess I am overthinking

Написано Mauzer Panteri, 08.02.2020 at 04:35

Cuz one trophy is fake and for losers.

Yeah, you're right. Being considered the best clan of an entire season just because you earned the most magic points is kind of lame considering you can just farm noob clans and camp the last two months to ensure no one can contest your position out of fear those better than you might have a shot at showing it.

Sometimes things may happen that prevent coalitions from being able to field their competitive teams

Написано Croat, 08.02.2020 at 03:12

Написано brianwl, 07.02.2020 at 19:08

So i heard from nearly all leaders, and majority are ok with Top 4 tourney (best of 7) until a coded solution is agreed upon.

In general, top 3 clans are usually the most active clans, independently of 'camping' case now. But many times 4th or 5h or etc. positioned coalitions are some small-period coalitions which have few wins from the season start and later they just go full inactive or they fail and its members go in another coalitions.
Just have that in mind

Написано brianwl, 07.02.2020 at 19:08

(Note to first place clan, if teams are intentionally not playing you (reverse camping) let me know and offers to CW will be counted.)

Yes, but not all coalitions have their best cwing team, or at least standard good team, online everytime.
For example: Doxa won't cw with, lets say 'Zodark' at this moment and I can wisely spam them to CW and offer a CW tens of times when they cannot play with anyone else than Zodark.
Peaky Blinders won't currently cw with Apoc or without one of our east players with everyone and in that occassions we can be offered for a cw by other coalitions tens of times too.
And same thing works for almost every coalition.

Going into every cw with any team is great during the first period of season, especially with newbies to competitive scene, but at the important times of season ending, of course no one will risk everything, but on the contrary, everyone will focus their targets to catch the 1st place.
By this I dont mean camping when 1st place is catched, of course you need to be wiser at the end of the season, but that doesn't mean you will sit on 1st place and avoid every possible cw, on the contrary, you will go into clan wars with your more decent team and keep your pride and fights to show who deserves that trophy.

There are much things that non rule or deal can affect on and such a things cannot be controlled that easily, based by looking just from one perception of view, neither from just another. And there is no possible pressuming line by which we can decide what was true, less true or not true at all.

---

---

FINAL 4 TOURNAMENT - CROATS SUGGESTION

Generally said, there are many pros and against things abour final 4 tourney, but at the moment we don't have better solution and I would really agree with it.
Since this is just a temporary option, adding seasonal trophy + final 4 trophy would just mess up things for future.


In my opinion, if we are going to implement the final 4 tournament, then I don't like the idea if 1st placed coalition plays 7 matches with top 3 teams during the last days of season, that there is no tournament. Either we are going to implement it, either we are not.
+ I dont really think that at this moment 1 leading coalition will play or be possible to play 21 cw in last 5,6 days of season.

I would make the system of that Final 4 tournament similiar as it is in handball for example.

1st placed team during the season carries ---> 50 points to the final 4 tournament.
2nd placed team during the season carries half of 1st placed team --> 30 points to the final 4 tournament
3rd placed team during the season carries ----> 10 points to the final 4 tournament
4th placed team carries ----> 0 points to the final 4 tournament.

I think this is the most fair option, because 1st placed team keeps the advantage. 2nd placed team still has nice percentage of chances to get 1st place. Third team also has chance to get 2nd place easily and maybe in some rare, but real occassions, they can even catch 1st place. 4th placed team has very small chances to become 1st placed, but at least they can always try, you never know what is life bringing to you. If nothing,they can at least fight for 2nd or 3rd place trophy.

In Final 4 tournament, each win worth 10 points. All clans have 21 match, which is 210 possible points in total for each clan (of course 99,99% that clans will not achieve all of them).

What about coalitions which don't end their 21 matches?
Coalitions which don't end all their matches (7 matches with each of rest 3 clans) - WHO CARES, they will achieve less amount of points while active coalitions will keep playing the rest of their matches and climb on tournament rankings.
In really obvious distrubing of the tournament with inactivity, that coalition will automatically be marked as 4th placed coalition and will suck every trophy.

ALSO:
If coalitions have same amount of points at the end of tournament, then the winning coalition is the one which has a better score between those 2 coalitions.




I think it's pretty simply and should be interesting.


What are your thoughts about this, brian and rest of guys?

Alright, i think this is over-complicating the tourney... all i had in mind was 1st vs 4th, 2vs3, using challonge. Winners would play a final for 1st and 2nd, Losers would play for 3rd. At work atm, but will post the challonge when i have a chance.

Написано brianwl, 08.02.2020 at 09:08

Alright, i think this is over-complicating the tourney... all i had in mind was 1st vs 4th, 2vs3, using challonge. Winners would play a final for 1st and 2nd, Losers would play for 3rd. At work atm, but will post the challonge when i have a chance.

yes, I absolutely agree. That is great, I like it and I agree, I was over-complicating things. I admit, my bad.

I read 3-4 posts here so im not sure if it was already suggested, but how about instead of final four we have final three?
1st place goes right to finals.
2nd and 3rd place plays in semifinals for the finals.

This puts a lot more value in the 1st place itself, which means its vulnerable to camping. So some daily elo loss for top clan no matter what, like -5 elo a day could keep the game in balance. To make it prestigious but hard to keep.
I dont know how many clans are active atm so im not sure if 2nd and 3rd place is worth camping on tho.

Написано Steve Aoki, 08.02.2020 at 23:06

1st place goes right to finals.
2nd and 3rd place plays in semifinals for the finals.

Good idea and fair.

Another random 6am suggestion by steve.

Regardless of my previous suggestion, and along with some elo loss for top spots, maybe the playoff start date could be kept a secret. It could happen any time in the first two weeks of the last month, decided by lottery or w/e and only admins would know the start date.
Not knowing the ending of the regular season both helps and harms with camping. Combined with elo loss camping seems kinda.. meh. Clans will want to keep the top spots no matter what, but elo loss should force them to play cws.

Or not. Idk. Just had my coffee, my logic might be fucked up.

Написано Steve Aoki, 09.02.2020 at 23:24

Another random 6am suggestion by steve.

Regardless of my previous suggestion, and along with some elo loss for top spots, maybe the playoff start date could be kept a secret. It could happen any time in the first two weeks of the last month, decided by lottery or w/e and only admins would know the start date.
Not knowing the ending of the regular season both helps and harms with camping. Combined with elo loss camping seems kinda.. meh. Clans will want to keep the top spots no matter what, but elo loss should force them to play cws.

Or not. Idk. Just had my coffee, my logic might be fucked up.

Hahahahah this is actually brilliant. Something similiar at 6 am too, while having coffee and cig, maybe we should implement Find the Santa into CWs.
Santa shows up in 2 out of 20 cws to each clan and he shows up only during the last month of season. Coalitions who don't find santa ---> will find the Elo reset

I'll ask dave to make a 'camping santa' unit -

Here is mine suggestion:
1st place goes into final
3rd and 4th place goes into Best of 7 so one who win more games goes against 2nd place and winner goes against 1st place then...
All of these games should be Bo7...

Had a couple players ask me this already , but to be clear, the proposal is top 4 tourney. Any new 'suggestions' belong in the suggestions thread (just haven't cleaned the thread, but will shortly. I'll move all the new suggestions to a discussion for next season.

Will there be final four in this season? With 5k pc reward from admins and with pc donations from players (MK is rdy to donate 5k pcs, too) so we make something interesting here, or no?

Написано Mauzer Panteri, 22.02.2020 at 15:05

Will there be final four in this season? With 5k pc reward from admins and with pc donations from players (MK is rdy to donate 5k pcs, too) so we make something interesting here, or no?

i spent all my coins on punisher tourney already

Написано Mauzer Panteri, 22.02.2020 at 15:05

Will there be final four in this season? With 5k pc reward from admins and with pc donations from players (MK is rdy to donate 5k pcs, too) so we make something interesting here, or no?

If 1st place has the 7 games (which right now, Mortal Kombat does) then you would win the season without a final 4.

However, if you want to have a tournament anyway, we could do it for fun... If you win both season and final 4, you would have unlimited bragging rights for this season.