Emperor Alois
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Winning or losing is not a problem for me, but given the comments, I share dividing scenarios from maps and then I would perhaps propose for the next time that a list of participating maps is put with a survey, everyone who wants to participate can do it and wins the majority. To avoid or limit the problem of double, triple accounts, voting could be limited to those who participate and / or from a certain level onwards
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Okay so what are we whining about now. The fact that staff voted on this or the actual outcome? Please pick one thing. PS. You disagreeing with something doesn't mean you are right nor that it has to change to conform to your opinion. Perhaps in the future we could change it up to scenario competitions aside from scenario competitions, but for now to argue about it for an already done competition is a waste of breath. You made your point, i'm sure it will be kept in mind for future competitions. No need to keep spitting toxicity and hate out of personal bias anymore
---- Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum 
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I completely disagree with the idea of a community completely controlling the vote however. I'm willing to propose this. Alois himself stated how difficult it was with the amount of maps that were entered into the contest. Let's consider this then. We could put up front all the maps entered and let the community vote on the nominees to be voted on so that way we can whittle away the crowd and reduce say 30 maps to 5 and then pass the 5 maps on to be voted on from rankings 1-5.
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Why are YOU whining about people expressing their opinions ? And from what I've seen on this thread, in terms of toxicity you are quite good too.
---- All rules from my scenarios can be found here : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wKJgMnWWJx1jV7SdFGat692b3SBLv4XLLZw84l4v_wA/edit?tab=t.0
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Such map, that is either a clone of some 5 year old map never published, or a 2-days work map ( http://prntscr.com/t0rhvb ) should not be awarded and promoted in such unfair way. not mentioning the fact that its not really good (and you can just wait and see how much will play it after it wont be promoted and hostable by all), nor alois and adog are *very close* friends, and that is worng to make competitions of map making when the editor is in beta status. and the most absurd is, that the map was made by one that has dozens of maps published (none are played) and is very known to the community, thus he needs no promotion. all of this said by one that is carrying a trophy himself (the map is bad and unpublished for months btw) - http://prntscr.com/t0rl03 . but as an idea, that would motivate people to play other maps but vanilla, and would also, over time, motivate people to buy premium, is a good and well tought one, which should be expanded and repeated, perhaps with a more stricted overseeing by the community. Cheers.
----    >playing atwar:  Furthermore, I consider that NWE must be destroyed
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This map was not done on two days work, the idea you think that is absurd. I can attest that it is not. This map is a clone of the original map because it broke many times(And adog said this in this forum MULTIPLE times) and I can see that he has multiple clones of the exact same map because of map breaking due to glitches.  Picture provided with permission from Adog himself, as you can see his broken clones go as far back as a month ago
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I have no problem with criticism. If some salty rival however starts throwing around blatant insults than I'll respond as needed;D
---- Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum
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Responding to j-e-s-u-s I have over 100 copies of this map due to this. I am sick of non-cartographer empire people thinking that a map like this could easily take 1-2 days. I'd love to see you even try to make a map like this in 2 days. Not because I am being arrogant, but because it will either look terrible / be unbalanced / glitch the hell out. It is physically impossible for any map maker to make a map this size of this quality in two days. Just goes to show how ungrateful you people are. This map WAS NOT EVEN MADE FOR THIS COMPETITION. If you did just the tiniest of bit of research you would know this map was made for a competitive tourney (the gladiatorial games - which is scheduled in July).
This btw is why I stopped making scenario maps. Aetius and Pyrrhus weren't the only old guards that retired. Quite frankly Tunder, Tik-Tok and I all retired before Aetius and Pyrrhus took the spot of hegemon in scenarios. So I guess we were ahead in the retirement game ^-^ This is why you see that I am making a map for respectful competitive players and not for some absolutely toxic condescending scenario players who think that maps take no time at all. Especially a map that took me (an experienced cartographer) 1 month, which would have taken any other cartographer a lot more time. I must state tho, that I was the one of the first who had told Alois it should be separated into genres. Pure maps and scenarios at least... if not comp, scen, RP/PS etc.
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The community backlash on this map clearly shows there should be a revision of the result of this competition. Adog and Pliny should learn how to handle critique, and should stop personally attacking players in order to defend their map. These are desperate and imbecilic attempts to derail the thread into a flamewar. It just makes everyone see that you yourselves probably know that that your map is frankly, mediocre, with no way to debate this using logic and arguments anymore. Credit to Akatsuki for being polite troughout this entire thread. Aswell as to Black Vortex (even though I respectfully disagree with his opposition to community voting) and all the people who criticise the map in a respectful manner. I think together, in a mature and dignified way, we can find a way to solve the outrage over the results 
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"Community Backlash" It's true that some voices scream the loudest, although they are a fat minority which this map isn't even designed for. The number of plays on this map, eventhough it's only been published 3 days are a testament of that. (Actual proof in stark opposition of having gathered 6 voices that yell "ADOG BED MEP. MODS BIASEDDDD") Is it not your genre and do you dislike the map? Absolutely understandable, but absolutely irrelevant to this map Do you have knowledge about mapmaking and have some tips or tricks or other forms of criticism? Absolutely understandable, we'd love to see that to be honest Are you a competitive player that actually played the map and formed an opinion? Please go ahead! Give us tips You and your peers are none of those. You are just a scenarioplayer with a knowledge going into the negative regarding either mapmaking or the competitive genre. Can you not distinguish the difference between criticism and flat out insulting not only the map but also the mapmaker? Then please leave this thread and refrain from spreading anymore toxicity that's completely unasked for, go circlejerk about "Adog bed mep" in your coalition forums Thank you very much, and my apologies to everyone else that has to keep up with all this absolute nonsense that's been started by you
---- Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum
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 1) The only critique I have had a problem with is only with yours and strider's and a few unbased arguments here and there. Your critique specifically has been called out as 'destructive criticism' by mods and supporters alike. It's not critique if it literally has no reason. 2) If anyone is trying to start a flamewar here... it is you.
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all lies u lost the cartographer war xaxaxa
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Imagine ACTUALLY thinking that this map is a good. Making custom maps is easy, all you have to do is balance out regions (which is a somewhat hard part), the map only has 2 special units, one being a secondary attack the other being a phalax unit with more cost and hp. Map competitions need to be split off between scenarios and custom maps, there is no way to compare those two since scen maps take longer to finish, balance out since they dont have just 4-6 types of units, making each faction unique and special is a hard thing.
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You realise everyone had ONE MONTH to do this, right?
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Furthermore why the entire aproach of the competition needs to be changed, from its judges to how much time there should be for someone to make the map.
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Xaxaxaxaxaa the fire rises
---- Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum
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nahhhhhh secretly IA is an allyfag against pyrrhus!! shhhh!!!!! xaxaxxaxa
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PEACE HAS COST YOU STRENGTH!
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I KNEW IT , Time for empire to allyfag with Pyrrhus!!! XAxaxaa
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who's to say it hasn't already happened xaxaxa
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For you.
---- Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum
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Wait... we were at peace? No this is AtWar not AtPeace!!!!!
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LATINOS ARE NEVER AT PEACEEEEE!
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ONLY SIRI MAKES DIPLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Who cares
---- Orcs are a horde, much like Turks. Elves and Men are light skinned, Orcs are often darker/sallow skinned, like Turks. Istanbul?Thats not how you pronounce Constantinople 
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Is actually a worse idea to have it to a public vote imo, more nepotism that way than with this.
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Rank based poll sounds fair to let everyone who invested time in this vote....r9-r10+ would be ideal for me....also remember it's just my opinion.
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Well done to the winners all nice maps, but a few thoughts from me. 1) Herefords Dream will appeal to the more hardcore 'competitive' players, would have had my winning vote, though this is probably due to familiarity which believe it or not is important to 'competitive' players which the competition was clearly set out for. 2) The negative comments about basing the map on Eu are just plain wrong, theres a reason its the most played map - familiarity and imperfect balance - your map is more likely to succeed long term and be picked up by the community as viable for competitive games if they are familiar with the set up/ dynamics. 3) A mod should clear the garbage from this thread. 4) MOST IMPORTANT - all map makers for the competition should be listed with their map, even if it is just the name without showcase. It is a slap in the face to all those who entered (including myself) not to even have the map mentioned when as people have quite rightly pointed out map making takes fucking hours.
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Even though I have received a lot of unnecessary toxicity directed at me... i would disagree. I would rather keep the fact that many people have debunked Empirezz and his goons in the thread. It is better than if it was deleted and he would say that the nepotist mods have struck again and that he was 'clearly right' and thus the victim. I would not want to have to deal with even more of his toxicity.
Well, according to Empirezz... apparently my map took less than a day! Woop!
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That would resort to a popularity contest.
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Anyone who thinks this map I created in 2014 took a day is insane - literally took about 2 weeks of 'mapping time' - https://atwar-game.com/map/?id=4589 The borders on your map will have taken more than 1 day alone.
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Last point for the future - perhaps you should allow those who entered the competition to be the panel of judges with a 1/2/3 vote (excluding their own map)
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I could see that system getting abused to be honest and it still doesn't sound particularly impartial. Perhaps just include community leaders ?
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As I said above I was making a post separately. I alone work on all this without help and have quite a busy life so it's kinda hard to finish everything on time.
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I need more help in order for this to be done the way you guys thought it should of. I cant have both time for voting and time for mappers to turn in their work when theres a month time limit for everything. I've already worked on fixing this with another project but more help would be much appreciated
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such lies we all know atwar is your life!
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I believe you have team under your command or you can have such so your problem can be minimize by them.
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You just dont get it, that's fine. Noone realizes just how much even the supporter team does because it's all behind scenes and what's public people complain they dont do anything when its split between like 12 people. Please understand that. Not only this but AW is constantly changing to meet new standards and needs
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ok, now what about the other points showed up?
---- >playing atwar: Furthermore, I consider that NWE must be destroyed
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Nobody forced you to be a supporter - but if you post around suggesting superiority as head supporter or take roles in leading community events like this, then be a champ and take the critique for the flaws in the competition on the chin.
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I'm sorry, have I not? If you think you guys can do it better then do it, as far as I'm concerned noone else is or is just crying. I'm more than willing to help out as well and offer materials needed to do so but noone takes up the offer. I also havent posted ANYWHERE suggesting I'm the top gun. Dont get my words wrong. Talk to me if you think something, I'm more than happy to tell you guys how things really are. I have received a lot of messages and replied even on here and accepted the "criticism" that was given, then explained that I was working on fixing it. What's wrong with that? Seriously.
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Next competition I will happily judge, I can't locate anywhere where this was an option.
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It wasnt as I thought staff would be good enough as they have people from all sides of the community and all are on discord- and know what it takes to do this.
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It will sadly be, in such a sense if that were to be an option i'd rather prefer participating in a closed group even if lets say it is biased or not, an open poll will sadly be heart breaking for unknowns or forgotten ones as well as lower ranked premiums who strives to do better. Lets say that sure the list of voters here are biased here sure, but in an emotional sense as per way of me seeing it, the ones who are unknown won't know the bias until it is far done in the event, thus giving them a slighter of hope on winning such "biased" competition, of course as I will repeat, this is just an "lets say" scenario. If we are to do this with an open poll, the unknowns will already realize that this will be clearly a sided victory to the well famed people thus will refrain from joining... sure there will be some who will brave the waters and test their faith, and some who will have the determination knowing failure awaits them, but that is overall just a false hope that until those famed people disappear and a new generation arises, one including them who were once unknown, will never change. So with such case I agree with Adog here as that, we shouldn't do a rank based poll as it will result to what we are arguing over here as "nepotism" and "favoritism". To add such point here, this is a game where clans exist and such with the determination of a high rank clan can just like in politics sway the favor of the vote into their favor by choosing the ones who as such will benefit from. As someone who submitted my maps knowing that I won't win, and even with my excitement and time spent on such map, seeing criticism by another high rank in regards of disgust and irony as that the map I made is a worse version of one of my clan mates who are more famous in the map making scenario and seeing the person saying it giving high regard to said mate without even playing my map itself, just spectating then leaving without the game starting yet (with judgement already being given the moment he saw the map)... It is with my heart that I'd rather participate in a closed judge competition than an Open rank based poll with a minimum vote of r9 above, this also will be the same if we are to remove the rank limit. As I repeat again like my last statement, I believe complaining furthermore won't change this and there will always be a biased opinion, and even if the voters did subject themselves to change, it will most likely benefit the ones who are known and achieved high in the ranking, and not the one who were left forgotten below. We can agree to disagree about who won and why, we can do the same in opposite of it as well... but as that the rewards are already given, PCs and SPs are already spent... and seeing that the head of support saying he will most likely not host anymore of this, I believe yours and the rests of anyone's complaints are far too late.
---- Suisei no gotoku arawareta star no genseki, idol Vtuber Hosimati Suisei desu!
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It is beneficial for all of us to bring this to an end, 4 days has passed after this forum was initiated and with it, it is highly unlikely for Alois to simply to do changes simply because of backlash. Further to add this case is that he is of higher authority than us and provides events that we enjoy or sometimes loath, are any of you willing to dissuade the entire Supporter team on hosting another event with similarity as like this for something so absurd? Aren't you guys getting sick of seeing events revolving around Europe+ competition over and over? or was I mistaken upon understanding some points here.
---- Suisei no gotoku arawareta star no genseki, idol Vtuber Hosimati Suisei desu!
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Behold, Im getting strong adrenaline rushes to reply. Stonks
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Yes Akatsuki. That is exactly why the only ""backlash"" has come from The_Empire. A clan that wishes to ensure only scenarios and only their people get awards. A clan that has no real cartographers (or atleast from its members that spewed out flameposts) and understands not the various complexities of cartography. Neither do they understand anything else outside of their limited knowledge of scenarios. As you can read, various cartographers (IA or not) have debunked their fallacious arguments as to the "low quality" of this map. The second and argument they have presented, that this is somehow nepotist (whilst saying they never accused the mods, and whilst not understanding that the mods and supporters voted for this), is ofcourse flawed. And as you have explained, it is a popularity contest, one in which they wish to dominate. The solution here is simple, have one award for scenarios and one for pure maps. Further divisions could be easily made (just like they have been in the past). It is not difficult. This will allow for the "scenario representation" these Empire-fags seem to demand - WITHOUT turning everything into a popularity contest.
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Lol, Empire has Nedris who makes decent high quality scenario maps, Zeph also helped Pyrrhus make the Kaiserreich New Dawn (which is better then your shit reskinned EU+), and asuming you think im one of those members that spewed out flameposts i helped and contributed to the creation of Ice and Fire and Kaiserreich American Civil war. All i see of your "mapmaking" is UN, napoleon (ripped off from Tik Toks work) and your EU+ reskinned.
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